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Investing in Real Estate in 2020? Here’s What You Need to Know


Gregg Cohen is Co-Founder at JWB Real Estate Capital and as a company they have managed over 3,500 rental properties for 1,200 clients which has generated $26+ Million in positive cash flow. This year (2020) has been a roller coaster ride and we talk about the real estate market now and in the near future. Should you invest? Is now a good time or wait? Is a housing bubble on the horizon? 0% Interest Rates.. What does it all mean?

Listen on: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pandora

If you can do something that you’re passionate about, but also have a secure nut so you’re not worried about living and your survival’s being taken care of. Then you have some gestation period between success or failure and success, you know, so I’ve truly believed you’ve got to keep hitting the ball.

All of that experience is something that I love because I learned how to communicate and connect. And it was just a beautiful experience, you know? So. Yeah, I mean, I failed, but it was, it was beautiful.


All right. I got Neil here on the establishing your empire podcast. Thanks so much for coming by the house and doing this.

Thank you for having me. I’m. I want to just say, I apologize for all the scheduling issues, trying to get this going. It’s been it’s been a time when I’ve been making some transitions and, and I appreciate your.


course, you know, the thing about a podcast, it’s always a want to have not a need to have. So I totally understand. And it actually happens. Yeah. It’s not the first time know it will be less. So luckily I get to do these at my home office, so I don’t have to like go someplace or schedule something. So it’s not, not too difficult to set up, but why don’t we start off with the seemingly easy question, but not always.

It’s just tell us a little bit about yourself.

Who are you, Neil? Yeah. So grew up in Minnesota. And my parents you know, came from India. So I have an Indian background and basically lived a pretty nice childhood. My grandparents raised me, my parents were both entrepreneurs and were very much into work.

So I had a childhood. And I got really amazing wisdom for my grandparents. My grandparents were into aryuveda and all these amazing things. And my dad was kind of more of an entertainer salesperson type vibe got into janitorial or janitorial products and stuff. But mostly he was a fun person to be around and he taught me how to dance.

And I used to dance like Michael Jackson as a business, as a child. So I had a very interesting childhood. I was like one of the only Indian kids in my, in my town. So I felt somewhat special and different, but also had a pretty normal childhood for the most part. I had some traumas for sure. Broke my hips and my legs and all sorts of things, probably due to some dancing and also just, you know, parenting in the way that they were parented, you know, which is a common theme in most people’s stories.

Which leads me to some of the work I do. But yeah, grew up in Minnesota loved tennis and table tennis and racquet sports

that actually, yeah. Yeah, for

sure. But yeah, overall just had a pretty cool life there. Certain things definitely like, you know, are my roots in Minnesota still, but overall, now, Texas man.

And how long have you been here in Austin? I’ve been here

eight years. Oh yeah. Nice. Since 2008. So I’ve been here for a little bit as well and seeing the growth and the change. Austin has been both positive and negative. I’ve enjoyed seeing the city grow and I’d rather be in a growing city than a dying city, but there’s also some.

You know, the life changes out of the city. Right. So why don’t you tell us a little bit more real quick and we can go through kind of how you got there, but tell us, like, when, when you talk about your businesses, you are now, what’s kind of the main thing that you’re doing. Cause it seems like there’s a lot


Yeah. So the main thing would be cacao that’s that’s the thing that I’m most passionate. And it was also a big part of my healing journey is using various plant medicine and then noticing how cacao this chocolate bean can, can make someone so much happier and also take them out of their, their head with.

You know, I used to drink coffee and teas and all these things that would put me very stimulated and this was really amazing. And so I asked myself, you know, this is my passion, what can I do about it? And I wanted to focus on creating more ceremonial cacao on this planet. 95% of the cacao in this world is hybridized.

And, and it’s kind of like a sacred thing that I believe can have a lot of change and help a lot of people. Needs to be preserved. So what’s the difference between

cacao and chocolate?

So chocolate is like an after thought of what the original thing is, which is cacao. And a lot of times as a Dutch process of alkalizing and making cacao into chocolate.

So it’s it’s kind of like taking sugar cane and making it into some form of sugar. But it’s not the original thing as such and most of the chocolate you find is not the original the actual genetics of chocolate. So,

and like, so people that are sitting at the cows probably extremely small compared to like what, where it should be like on those journey with cacao, like what stage or level do you think you’re at or want to get to at, or wherever you want to

take that.

Right. So, I mean, I feel like I’m at a stage where I can taste and feel and know a lot about what I’m consuming. It’s kinda like a Somia in wine. When you consume something enough and various types, you get a knowledge about it. And I feel like I have a pretty solid knowledge about it. I’d love to still learn more.

And then also I’ve been meeting connections through the cacao world. And there’s people who specialize in keeping the sacred bean and my dream and my goal. And my next investment is only focused on standardizing that process and making sure that people start labeling that, making sure the ceremonial beans are rectified, notified, and know people know that they’re consuming.

It’s a lot of times, you know, you get this fair trade and it’s, it’s nothing like that. It’s just. Something

and because it was just my lack of knowledge. Like some, when you say seminar, ceremonial, excuse me. Like what’s it actually mean? Like is that is actually actually what we do in a ceremony or is it something


It’s all of the it’s a ceremony is the actual genetics. So there’s three types of genetics beans that are well-known Trinitarios, Creole, and Fronterra. So these types of things. Are the ceremonial beans, the original beans that were found in 7,500 years ago, potentially in the rainforest potentially either Ecuador, Peru, it’s still, no one really knows, you know proof says it’s found first their equity versus his boundaries there.

But I used to work for the rainforest partnership and I learned a lot about some of the details on the history and a lot of the actual science behind it. So ceremony is conducted definitely with intention. So. It’s not like you’re making your morning cup of Joe. But you can do that with ceremony, like a cow and you you’re basically setting your intention.

You’re doing some form of energy release, so it could be breath work. It could be movement, it could be dance. It could be even journaling for that matter, but various traditions have different ways of activating the medic. And you literally are almost, you know, praying and into the cup and drinking it.

And then going through some form of catharsis, like a cathartic release, where you’re able to feel incense and emotion that hasn’t been seen and are held and you’re able to express it and fully move through it. And how

is that based upon the actual, what you’re drinking and then and how much is your for less

of it?

It’s, it’s there. I mean, you can’t drink a cow and go to sleep. You know, it’s going to do something to you and just that. And it has all these amazing bliss molecules. There’s actual chemicals in. A medicine that activates releases oxytocin. So the first time you fall in love that energy is in the body.

And if you’re aware of it, you’re going to feel it. Yeah. And you know, so for

me, that’s super interesting. Cause I think we always have emotions tied to a lot for things. Foods want them drinks, coffee, all this. And I think a lot of people have some positive and negative emotions to coffee. I wasn’t a big coffee drinker.

I was, I’m more of a, I like a lot. So like. Which is still, you know, a higher stimulant caffeine, but we did our honeymoon in Africa, on a safari and, you know, they serve your coffee and it’s like this fantastic coffee outside your door, right. When you wake up. And so I don’t, I’ve been drinking coffee more now.

Cause I think I just, you know, have this positive emotions towards it, but I still only like the cold brew because I just don’t. I think it’s too acidic. I think in my mind so I think a lot of us are looking for that stimulate and what I, what I’ve found that if I, you know, coffee, a lot of times isn’t enough.

I have to actually be out and move around because I sit in front of a computer all day. So how can somebody that just a normal, like, you know, office worker or whatever. This is something in the morning type of thing.

What do you recommend? Yeah, so coffee and cacao are kind of like, then they’re like the opposites of each other.

They both have similar ingredients. Both of them have theobromine, but the amount of theobromine in cacao is like the amount of caffeine in coffee. You, so it’s like complete opposite in that sense. There’s still coffee, caffeine. And. But it’s kind of the amount where it, instead of energetically bringing you a lot here, it brings you a lot here.

It’s, it’s literally theobromine is a hard opener. That’s what it’s made to do. So it’s definitely something anyone can consume. And I think it’s better for work for me. I feel like being in a happier place when I’m working feels better. And if you look at my organization, everyone seems to be more joyful.

But just like anything, moderation is very important. So I. Even cacao fasts, and one cup of coffee requires 32 glasses of water to balance your internal pH. So just like anything, like if you’re on a honeymoon and you’re drinking really good wine from France, you know, that’s going to be amazing. And our body has certain limitations, right.

So if we’re not actually healthy, it has some form of. Anything can be not so good for us. Right. I feel that way about it. Mostly. Yeah. I mean, I think

balance is not just in food and drinks. It’s just about everything. Why don’t you? Well, let’s back up, but I love that because it’s just something, I have very little knowledge of it, but I’m always interested in, in you know, new things and trying to.

You know, work in front of the computer. Like I said, it’s not, it’s not everyday I can get out and about, and I am a very energetic type of a person to always looking for new ways to do that. But let’s talk about kind of your journey a little bit. So, so you were, you did a lot of dancing as a kid. Like what, what, what, tell me go any way anywhere you want to go in the path?

Yeah, sure. So you know, in Minnesota I was dancing. I had a lot of fun. Expressing myself, but then there was the trauma part. So that’s kind of like the work even cacao helps with is is that, so, you know, I went to college in Wisconsin and in Florida, as well as England, I went to three different colleges and I studied hospitality and the reason I got into hospitality is my father was in pharmaceuticals.

And he used to travel a lot and I used to go visit with him and these awesome hotels. And I just loved the feeling of people being taken care of and just this amazing people, love food. And I love food. I’m a foodie myself. And it was like learning that, that hospitality feeling of, of creating a space where people feel welcome and at home.

So that’s the path I went on. And, and then I was working at a hotel. I was 21 years old. I was a director of catering for 300. And I had gained so much weight from just the Western lifestyle. And that’s when I went back into what my grandparents taught me, the, you know, the way my grandma would procure and garden, and my grandpa would go to like four or five different stores and markets to get the right foods and the right vegetables.

It was that I learned that sensitivity. And, and in that sensitivity, I. Implementing aryuveda and implementing the doses and balance and went down that path. So a cacao and all those things came later on in life, but it was first healing, the body and healing the mind and healing the soul and getting out of the toxic lifestyle that I was living.

So, and then how

I actually, like, you know, I’m sure 24 years old, 20, 25, how did you actually move to that next step? Right. You’re working in a job, you know, that’s unhealthy, but like some of those. It’s sometimes it’s really hard for people

to move out of that. Totally. It was, it was addicting. I was getting paid very well.

I was in a partnership with a very beautiful human and we were connected from college and we were on the marriage path and everything. And my parents came up to me one morning and told me we have an amazing opportunity. My parents have a janitorial and sanitation supply company and a company in India.

One of the largest companies in. Approached us to do a joint venture. So my parents were like, we need you to leave your job and we’re moving to India. And so my, my partner and I both moved to India and we started working and doing this joint venture. The joint venture took a long time and a lot of money.

And in that process, I took my American express card and I started. Importing care team. My mom was flying into New York city before she to drive in India and getting care team treatments done. So it basically takes your, your fuzzy frizzy hair and it makes it flat and beautiful for a period of four to six months.

So I, I contacted my mom’s salon and I started, I became the first, the only importer of care team in India. So that’s, that was one of the things I did for three years. And my mom is still doing that. So that was, that was like going to India and immersing myself in the culture. It became really easy to just start living healthily and having support.

For someone who’s

never been to India. Just a quick side question, like where what’s your favorite places where to go?

What do you love about India? India is like, I feel like I’m such a culturally fruitful place where people just are comfortable being with each other. I love India. And I love the food and just the very, the, the, just the variants that are there.

You know, you go to north India, south India, it’s so different everywhere in even the way they consume, even the way they believe in terms of spirituality. So different. My favorite place is called gold. And go is like a peninsula. And it’s one of the most beautiful places. If you asked me it’s been owned by the Portuguese a lot and no one really owns Goa.

It goes between India and various governments. And it’s just one of those very sovereign places where people go to vacation and people go from all over the world. Kind of like Bali. I don’t know if you’ve been to Bali or I haven’t.

Yeah, but obviously

know about Bali, but you know, the BGS and the John Lennon and all those guys used to go in and create palaces there.

And there’s beautiful places all over and it’s amazing. It’s like scooter life, you, you drive a scooter around. Eat fresh food and it’s really good.

That sounds amazing. So you’re importing and doing all this, what happens next? W why, why did you stop doing it? I

guess, stopped. So, you know, it was part of my own growth, you know, like as an Indian son, only one Indian son, Belief that I had to take care of my family and I had to create something for them in order for their lives to move forward.

And it was all these things that I had to work through in order to start fulfilling my own dreams and my own passions and carotene. Wasn’t my passion. So I decided to go back to the U S and rebuild my life again. And, and I had different thoughts on what I wanted to do with that business. I also became very aware of health and just the way.

The world worked in certain ways of, of just toxins and things. And I truly believe that keratin wasn’t good for humans, you know, personally. So I didn’t want to put my energy into it anymore, you know? And so I came back and I hustled and, and rebuilt myself. And yeah, it was cool. So what was the next thing that you

did that was successful or

anything that, yeah, so I started another business.

It was called outstanding dining. It was kind of like a group on for restaurants, family owned restaurant. And local charities. So charities that I believed in and, and so I would tie them together and it was basically like an app and I got, I think 75 local, Minnesota restaurants signed up and we were doing that for a bit.

And then, yeah, it wasn’t, it wasn’t something that really took off, but

w w well, one of the questions I like to ask about, like, starting something like that is there’s always so many want to be entrepreneurs. And they always want to start something. And you know, I think one of the traits of entrepreneurship is maybe just allowing, not hearing all the no’s before you start or whatever it is, but like any tips or tricks, I’ve just actually getting started with that


Yeah. I mean, If you can do something that you’re passionate about, but also have a secure, not say you’re not worried about living, you know, your survival’s being taken care of. Then you have some gestation period between success or failure and success, you know, so I truly believe you got to keep hitting that.

You know, like the only way you’re going to be able to hit that ball with confidence and authority is, is by not doing that first. You know? So I, I just, all of that experience is something that I love because I learned how to communicate and connect and it was just a beautiful experience, you know? So yeah, I mean, I failed, but it was, it was beautiful.


and did you have like a side hustle that you were watching perhaps,

or. It’s still in the hospitality industry. I was a general manager for a hotel and arrested. Even in between those years, I was a chef at a restaurant. I also was a bartender. I ran a, a local that’s actually not local it’s based in Denver, but it was a pop-up bartending service.

So I was a manager of that. I did all these things, you know, just to keep the doors open and keep moving. You know,

it’s so funny. It’s very civil me. I’m always doing multiple things, but chef real quick. What’s your favorite? Like seasoning, like if you have a go-to one that you just kind of always have to have.

Yeah. So it’s not a have to have, but I’d really love truffle. Okay. Yeah. I can go for, you know, making anything truffle, like, you know, it has its own grounding feel to it and it’s nice. Yeah. Yeah. And

that, that took off where now a lot of things aren’t actual truffle,

but truffle it’s true.

Yeah. Ma I think mine would have to be lemon pepper is, seems so basic.

It can take some very boring dishes and at least give some life to it at least a little bit. And if you don’t have lemon pepper, then you know, obviously lemons and pepper work actually even better, but just a little bit more effort to put in there. So what was one of the things that maybe worked or didn’t work that’s of note with the with, I forget what the business was that we were doing.

Yeah. That the hot, that, where you had the multiple


areas, what did, what worked and didn’t work? Yeah. Yeah, just getting into the heart of like, getting to know people and getting to know what they needed and being able to communicate from the heart space, that was like the best experience. And also recognizing like my dream of wanting to own a restaurant needed it.

It’s still there, but I knew that there was time between when I was going to start it and you know, all of that, just like learning. Absorb wisdom, you know, and, and see the hard work people put into their business and then try to be there for them in the most integral way possible. So, yeah, I mean, that was, that was, it was a loss in the sense, like, I couldn’t fulfill all their dreams, but I got to at least experience, you know, a lot of what it takes to be a restaurant owner.

So what kind of restaurant would you want? Yeah, I’ve got an, I’ve got a really good idea. It’s a farm to table. Are you Vedic restaurant? So like, I love Casa and I’m a huge fan of Casa. But I would love to make something like Casa, but more plant like flavor. And I’m more of the curries and the, and the, in the long take, like things that take a long time to make like the long taken curries and the boss monkeys, rice, and the and things, making something like that, where it happens serves only once a day.

But food is being created all day, you know, and that you can taste that flavor in that work it’s been created. So I think some of

that was great because one just like tactically, like something can show up and get their food pretty quickly. Right. Because it’s, it’s ready to go and you can make it in mass.

Right. As opposed to. Having everything being very specific. And then you could also tell really great stories around your ingredients because it’s in season or you got at the certain farm or whatever. I could see that doing really well. Also with that. Is this something that you could do pop-ups with, you can start that way, right.

And to test some stuff out,

you know, Casa allows me to cook in their restaurant and I’ve done it a few times where I’ve had a Curry nights and things. And I

give a little quick background on Casa. Cause there’s a lot of people I actually have there’s all over the world. So sometimes they

won’t. So let me tell you a little bit about Casa, Casa de.

Is a macrobiotic restaurant, but it’s also like a spiritual center. It’s a space, a community space where they have facilities all over my business. Third eye meditation lounge is inside, along with another other businesses. And it’s a beautiful nonprofit been around for 30 years. Serving similar food for 30 years and it’s all a hundred percent organic.

They try to do as local as possible. And it literally feels like integrity. Just walking into the space. It’s like this beautiful, very tropical feeling that you are.

I feel like you’re in a different country, but you walk in and it’s like downtown Austin, which I’m sure 30 years ago was not even downtown at all.

Right on the way from downtown to Zilker park or something. But. Let’s see, actually, that’s take a side note because there’s so many different areas. I do want to talk about meditation because I think. Something that’s very helpful, helpful for a lot of people, but a lot of people don’t know who or where to start.

And we can talk about it in any direction you want to go. I do think that people would get some value on like how to start meditating and where to,

yeah. I’ll just talk about a few things about meditation that I know that’s based on my experience. You know, I believe we all, I believe that the. The body keeps the score and the issues are in the tissues and our nervous system and how we feel in our body is really important on how much you can meditate.

So if you don’t feel good in your body, it’s going to be more difficult for you to manage. It’s gonna be more difficult to calm the nervous system down and to process certain things within the body. So, I mean, for me, I started out and I went to Vipassana and I did the 10 day silent meditation retreat, which helped me face a lot of.

Has helped me face a lot of my trauma and, and allow the feelings that I wouldn’t allow myself to feel that come up. And that was very helpful from there. I learned all sorts of techniques and ways to meditate and, and also heal my body. Cause I think it’s a simultaneous thing. You, you, you can meditate, you know, forever.

But then you can also integrate some of that stuff. So it’s kind of like taking. I re a backpack when you need a suitcase. And if you, if you don’t heal the body, it’s going to feel like you’re always on a shorter journey than you could be on. Essentially. Does that make sense? It does.

And I’ll take it another side note.

Cause as though it was fun. So you’re like the third pipe, probably fourth or fifth, actually they have done these, you know, these long-term silent retreats, right? Maybe walk us through a little bit of that a little bit more. Cause I think it’s so interesting. Something that I haven’t done, but it’s

something that I’m very interest.

Yeah. So I went to the DAMA, Siri, Kaufman, Texas, it’s this organization is beautiful. They have these centers around the world and it’s, donation-based they take care of you, housing, food, you know, everything you need. And it’s just this little room that you get and it’s so beautiful. This. So my experience was I walked into this room.

I have my suitcase, and there’s nothing really that you can bring into this other than like clothes and that’s it. No supplements, just you. And it was really cool. So I walk in this room. I’m in here, got a schedule. And it’s basically 10 hours or so of meditation or learning your there’s some, some classwork.

There’s a, there’s a, a man who started his foundation who’s passed and he’s got videos that you listen to every night. The cool thing about it is if you’re, if you’re with what, what has happened. Every question you have gets answered in those videos each night, which is interesting. This guy obviously put this program together with a lot of intention and you do have questions.

I feel like I had questions and you can’t really speak to anybody about it. So this, this video at night, it was really helpful, but it’s basically breakfast at six in the morning. You get a lunch, a small lunch, and then a small dinner, and then you’re basically. One hour meditations is happening every, every hour.

And then you, you’re kind of like just in a spot where you don’t move for an hour. Each time the meditation happens. And the first three days you’re concentrating only on the air that’s coming out of your nose. And then it goes deeper. So there’s different practices that you’re learning, but really you’re learning body awareness.

You’re learning sensations, and you’re also learning to come up and feel the blocks because there will be blocks that come up when you’re not dealing with anything in the world, other than yourself. You will start to feel some of the things that are potentially within you. And do you

go in there with like a goal and, you

know, I, you know, I, I did

like a business idea or this or that, or relationship

health, or I think after the first one, you could probably do more of that.

Maybe if you do come in with the goal, that goal might not be apparent. If you face something else within your soul’s journey. You know, so I don’t want to say, you know, I know,

right? Yeah. Because you’ve been through it and back to just the normal meditation, I think a lot of people have troubles quieting their brain.

And obviously it’s very easy to reach for your phone or TV or, or whatever it is or a drink, or you can go on a large list there. What’s some just basic tips. I think for someone who. You know, they, they hear that 10 day retreat and that that’s way too much, but maybe they’re starting to feel like they need to start doing something.

What’s a great way to just,

yeah, totally. There’s some really cool techniques that you can do prior to meditation. So I say getting all the energy that stagnant or anything that’s within the body, getting that up, moving, shaking a tap. That’s really good. And then there’s also these little devices you can get there’s meditation devices, you can actually use they can do light therapy.

There’s something called a NuCalm, which puts Gabba on your PCIX. Right. Right here, it’s an acupuncture pressure point and it literally helps you shut down the brain. And then there’s followed by that there’s actual sounds that connect with the GABA and helped you get into a meditative state. So I actually love that.

I use that on a lot of my clients. And that’s just great for anybody you do that for an hour or half an hour, even it’s like four or five, six hours of additional sleep that your body receives from that transmission. So it’s

interesting that you say the tabbing cause I, what I do use in this, I guess you could be in the meditative area, but when I get nervous, I count my breasts and tap my fingers.

And I’ll do a three and three out just to kind of reset myself. And what’s great is you could do it without anybody knowing it’s, especially before you know, you’re giving a big speech or something. It’s a great way to just quit thinking about all the, what ifs and all these nervousness that are popping up and just focus on breathing.

And I think the tapping helps with that. It was Tony Robbins that I heard that did that. I don’t remember where it was from, but that’s what was very helpful. That’s very basic because he could just do it on the side. And you’ve kind of talked about, and I know we were going to jump around the journey, but you’ve talked about clients.

So when, when you say that

what’s that mean project, me and my partner, and a few other healers, it’s called a rooted integration project, a rooted integration project.com. It’s basically a four week program where we help reset the nervous system, get the gut health, the brain health, the heart health, and creating basically more, more coherence.

So we use heart math. We use a Tre, which is tremor release exercises. A lot of times trauma is stuck in the psoas and we help release just basic trauma in the body. And then we teach various meditative techniques, clearing technique. And we also have a shaman who helps with some ceremony work. So plant medicine potentially can be used, but we meet people where they’re at.

And most importantly is for people to help develop a secure attachment to them. So they understand, you know, what they’re bringing to the world and understand the separateness and the connectedness in between.

What’s kind of a, either a normal client or an ideal

client for you guys. Yeah. So someone who potentially, you know, has trauma or has found awareness with the trauma, doesn’t know how to actually heal or integrate someone who’s taken plant medicine who needs some support.

Someone who’s lost a family member, anybody who’s needing emotional connectedness, also inner child healing. So we, we do regression work. We do a lot of emotional work, so people are having hard time accessing their emotions. We help them do that. Yeah.

So it’s kind of, you know, I guess a different way of kind of a psychologist with a little bit of you know, but also with the body, it sounds like too, kind of the

merging of all the bodies, mind, body spirit.

So all of it.

Yeah. I’ll I’ll yeah, that’s a great way to put it. And how’d you even get into that stuff, obviously, you’ve you kind of have this interesting path and you were getting more connected to yourself. And then a follow up question with that is how did you make that into a business? Cause that’s something that’s super interesting.

I think a lot of people start getting involved in these unique areas that might not be so mainstream, but then they just kind of keep it to themselves or just

do with their friends. I studied tantra, I learned seven levels of a lineage and I just started teaching. I had a clients about 10 years ago.

I started. Just implementing all the things I learned after two years of celibacy, after going through my own progress of the program, I learned from this couple who’ve been teaching for 40 plus years. They were 70 plus years old and they had all this energy and vitality and I was. Sign me up, you know, so that was my first teaching.

I become certified in somatics and Reiki and all sorts of things. But Tanisha was for me, one of the most important things that I wanted to bring to the Western world in an appropriate integral way. So I started teaching the COVID. And I did this a hundred day celibacy course about seven or eight years ago here in Austin.

And it was a huge success. I think we, we made like 50 grand, you know, and it was awesome. It was like, wow, this, this actually is great. And, and to this day, a lot of these students are people very much involved in my life and I’ve seen so much progress from it. I believe you have to root down to right.

And tantra is one of the greatest tools to root down, to rise up, to get strong in your core and your mulabandha and in the lower parts. And so it was tantra that taught me a lot of these foundational work. And from there, I just studied everything I could possibly study. And I put together a program based on what I thought worked best.

And it’s always improving. I’m always taking more courses and learning more that I can implement with this project.

So what about the haters that sit there and say that. You making money off of this stuff. Do you have any, any flack in that

area? Of course, money and I think is very powerful. And you know, if you’ve read rich dad, poor dad, you know, you’ll understand just the basic concepts and power around money and.

If you value something and, and you want to do something about it, money has to be exchanged. And I think that’s important. So I

see money as fuel, right? And because you have to have it, and let’s say in your field, if you want to reach five people and stuff like that, that’s fine. You don’t have to, you don’t have to charge for it.

But if you want to reach 5,000 or 5 million, you’re going to have to have some fuel

a hundred percent, a hundred percent. If I don’t feel comfortable with the work I’m doing, if I don’t feel. In that exchange. I don’t want to be there. And it’s it’s energy for me to be able to share that space. So I value it.

It’s not cheap. Our program is $4,000 per month and I don’t think that’s a small investment. It’s a mortgage for some people. So, you know, nice mortgage.

Yeah. But you know, it’s also investment in yourself is what in a lot of people that want it want to get to the next level. To me selling on value is different than selling.

Like, you know, I’m going to give you these four attributes to whatever you’re saying. Hey, what if I can. Really some blockage of you. So you could invest in some place or starting a company, or

not only that is preventative medicine, right? So it’s genetic work that we do that help prevent things that are in your genetic line.

So we do actual gene work. It’s crazy. Like you can prevent a lot of things that your parents went through. If you get awareness, And that’s, that’s all it is. And that you can’t pay. If you can’t go to the Western, you can’t go to a doctor and you can’t even go to a psychologist to find that information it’s deep work.


I say, you know, parents of alcoholic or something is that, and that’s kinda what you’re saying is,

and fix something like that. Not even fix it first, we figured out the root of how it started. That’s how trauma works. It’s it’s, it’s something that happened too fast, too quick, too soon. You didn’t have any way of, of processing or.

Finding the ground from there. So you’re still holding something that’s nervous in the body. That’s, that’s how trauma works, really. So it could be that they’re traumatized from something within their family line that caused the alcoholic gene to turn on. So we then find that and access it and process and heal.


was it. Are there any traumatic trauma there that you would like to share that, that you went through that got you on this


I mean, I went through a lot of things with my own father and my mother that, you know, definitely taught me a lot about how to even recognize trauma. I didn’t even know I was traumatized for so long and that’s a lot of people’s story.

Sometimes people think that this happy go lucky lifestyle in life. And trauma, what happens is it when it comes up you get to see some of the parts and the areas in which these patterns are stored and you get to heal, not just that aspect, but your, your family’s reason for carrying it too. So it’s really beautiful.

The circle that happens. Wait, sorry, what was the question again? There was

some traumatic stuff that you .

So when I was a child, I walked into a party with my parents and very nice lush. Beautiful home. And, and I don’t know exactly what it was, but there was an energy there and this, this person was unbuttoning my coat and fondling me right in front of my father.

And for a long time, that was an unprocessed trauma that caused me to not first of all, trust men, my father, and we had a huge gremlin between us for a long time, which got cause a lot of abandoned us and all sorts of things. But I’m at a point where I recognize. His story and all the things that created that incident, you know, and no longer causing blame and shame and all the things around that.

So, yeah.

Well thank you for sharing that’s I mean, that’s that stuff can, you know and I’m very happy also on the flip side of it, that you’ve been able to recognize it, which is a big step and then, and deal with it to move through it because you don’t want that weight

to carry around forever. Trauma you carry people’s pain.

That’s not yours. You know, so it’s like I was carrying not just my feelings and emotions, but my father’s and his emotion and reaction was also traumatic. So you get to learn these things. And

because he probably felt very, very belittled as well or worthless or whatever it would be. It’s probably more than Muslim.

It was his inner child that was present at that moment to which you get to learn some of these. Through something called completion process, it’s a form of hypnosis that I also have trained in. So yeah. W w

why don’t you give us a little bit more on that? I suppose also there’s so many different areas

and completion process is a tool designed by teal Swan.

And what it is is it’s allowing, let’s say a traumatic incident that happened in your childhood. You there’s a whole set and setting that you create in order to have your adults. Comfort your inner child during that space. So if you have had something in a feeling or emotion, or even an incident that you feel still unsafe around, there’s a, there’s a way to bring your adult self to comfort your inner child.

And that’s what the process really is. It takes about two hours. Oh, wow. Yeah.

And you know, one thing I wanted to get to as well with a lot of these sayings is let’s say that somebody who doesn’t have a lot of money doesn’t live in Austin, Texas, But has some of these, you know, this trauma or traumatic experiences that they do want to begin to work through.

You know what, what’s a good place to start.

we recommend first thing is read the book. It didn’t start with you. That book actually comes with a bunch of worksheets that I utilize for my clients as well. It’s great. It helps you start to uncover and then process. Just learning how to sense your feelings is a great way to start moving emotions that are stuck in the body.

So there’s tools start doing that, and that will bring you to the next thing, which could be yoga or whatever it is that helps start moving the energy or tapping or emotional, you know Tre you know, things like that. So you can find a Tre practitioner in every state in the world, basically. And then what’s,

what’s, you know, what’s five years out for you.

Like, what are you, what

are you looking forward to doing? Totally I hope to have. Created really amazing connections with cacao and potentially owning a farm myself or creating more sustainability for farmers traveling and, and really sharing the medicine that is cacao. I think that’s probably the focus for the next few years.

I’m also potentially working with a franchise advisor. To make third eyes something that we can bring to other cities and to bring to other communities. And that’s also goal. And our do you guys have

plans for just selling like the rock a cow? We do it. I feel like it’s do that now, right? Yeah. Yeah.

And is that more in like a powdered state in a hard, slow?

Well, what we do is we take a cow paste, which is everything that comes from the actual being other than the, than the fruit like the. So the relish or whatever you want to call it. And we, and they grind it up into a paste, so that has all the fat in it.

And when you transport that it’ll melt. Right? So we do focus on making that and we ship it cold a lot of times. But we take that paste and we, we cold crumble it into a powder so people can consume it easier. And that’s one of our flagship products is the third act of cowlick, elixir. And people just add that to their hot water and use one of those little latte mixers.

And you’ve got your morning drink. That’s a

lot of fun. And then. Take a kind of a look back like, all right. So you’ve done a lot of interesting things a bit all over the world. It sounds like. What kind of advice would you give all the way back to like, you know, 16 year old self?

Yeah. Yeah, it would be probably to read certain books, you know, and get more info, get more knowledge around certain things that I feel like I’m playing catch up on now, you know?

So yeah, I mean, it would be to also have, don’t forget to have fun. Yeah. And remember your roots, remember how important it is that that culture brought to you? You know, there was a time and a place where I felt like my culture, wasn’t something I could be proud of and that’s completely shifted as I’ve dived deeper into it.


what about any, so you talked about, you know, we just talked about what you would recommend yourself, but in any regrets or along this path?

Yeah, definitely. Not like regrets, but just. Be slower, you know, just take more time, find, find meditation quicker, you know? I think those are the things, you know I feel like I had a beautiful life, but it happened too quickly and I wish I could have just slowed down a little bit.

I feel like that’s something. And so it would say when they’re older, so it’s great that, you know, maybe we didn’t recognize that when we were 16, but you know, the younger than better to recognize slow down. And I feel like that as well. One thing that I, it was a quote I heard or something. I do firmly believe it, in order to slow down time, you have to create your new experiences because otherwise, if you’re doing the same thing every day, your brain kind of gets on autopilot.

And it’s very

forgettable. Right? I believe that in some aspect, I feel like consistency is good. But then if you can just make 1% shift within consistency. So you’re still consistent, still in the masculine, but then you’re finding creative ways to integrate that consistent thing that you’re doing. So you’re getting better at it or you’re getting optimizing it or whatever it is, you know, so, yeah.


like, and so we do like, I, you know, to have our food at certain times and having shelter had a lot of different things that need to be consistent. Yeah. What about like, I’m sure you get with a ton of these like common myths that you hear in cringe. It could be meditation. It could be in the other areas that you do, but anything that you just want to talk about that like, just kind of, you hear and you kind of

want to talk about, yeah.

So, you know, in Austin it’s really popular now, the hot bats or the hot the sauna and then the cold baths, you know, and, you know, I really feel like putting yourself in a position to be hot and cold. Can be really good for the nerve reset the nervous system sometimes, but doing that constantly doesn’t allow for gestation to happen.

So I really believe integration is being able to go from dissonance to resonance and finding consistency and being resonant. And I feel like right now in our spiritual community, in various plant medicine communities, it’s too much of the medicine. It’s too much of the. The, the party without the, the rest and the meditation and the, and the parts that require integration.

So I know it’s cool to take mushrooms and all these other things, but you know what we’re doing at third eyes, creating classes and spaces where people can integrate, you know, what they’ve learned from their journey and to really slow down, to speed up so that, you know, they have more focus and clarity.

They feel more fulfilled in their life. And I think that’s really important.

So let’s talk more about plant medicine. And I have very little knowledge in this area as in personal out knowledge, but I’m very interested in the area, right. So I’m actually just take it wherever you like it. You know what, what’s a very common questions that people have asked you, or what do you guys start with?

Like w w w

wherever we want to take it. So so in terms of health, just basically, I believe that when we’re healing, we have a lot of symptoms and when we heal too quickly, So when our body is, is doing something internally, that’s moving something too quickly. Energetically our physical body may not be able to handle it.

So you know, Plant medicine can, can be really good if let’s say you have a block that your consciousness can not overcome. Plant medicine can be helpful to help you change your state in order to move through something, you know, that can be potentially painful or traumatic or whatever it may be.

It could be even genetic that you have no idea about that you’re carrying, you know, so. Depending on what it is. There’s various different plant medicines. There’s things that open you up. There’s things that bring you in this things that is various things. So like ketamine is a disassociative. Iowasca is one of those things that can be very spirit.

It’s like a spirit molecule where it connects your soul to, you know, to the earth in a very, in a way that can be very disruptive. Can take a long time to integrate from. So that’s why I believe set and setting are super important. Let’s say you lose a partner of 20 years, you know, and you have a hard time processing it and your children are tired and you don’t have a lot of, you have a lot of time on your hands.

I asked them might be good for you, you know, but let’s say you’re an entrepreneur and you’ve got shit going on and you can’t take two months off for three months off to rest and do that. I will ask us not recommend it. I would potentially recommend maybe mushrooms, which has a quicker gestation time from recovery.

Because these are poisons in our body is going to react in a way that will heal in certain ways. If you’re, if you’re in the right space and you have the right time and you have the right dealers and support around you. So it’s really sentencing. And all these different medicines do different things.

Our Western world is becoming very open to that in our current timeframe, which is cool. However, there’s an extreme to everything, right? So. I really believe, you know, the person who’s procuring the medicine, the person who’s receiving the medicine have really good intentions is coming from a really grounded place.

And, and really decides, you know, this is what I want to do. What do you ask the right person? What they need, you know, and where do you see you kind

of the future of this? I mean, it seems like you said it, you know, the U S itself seemed like they’re becoming more and more open to some of these MDMs and stuff like that.

Where do you see

this? Yeah, like MDME are our sassafras. That’s like more of like, let’s say someone who’s been bitter for a long time, you know, it needs to find more love. It’s a good one for that. What I see it going is, do you know what spiral dynamics is? I do not know. Okay. So spiral dynamics is this, is this a.

Thought belief system in which there’s various types of consciousness that live in our planet right now that if you believe in spiral dynamics, this is the first time in our life where we have so much variety of consciousness. So there’s different groups and people and humans who live in a certain vibration live in a certain lifestyle that carry a certain vibration and consciousness.

That’s why there’s so much difference right now, this very much difference between our parents. Or grandparents and grandchildren, whatever it may be technology and various human or earth changes have created these separations. Not that it’s good or bad, but because of this new consciousness that’s coming, you know, we’re going to have a lot more evolution.

So I believe we’re going to evolve. And, and that’s what I see at our future being is being more evolved society. But with variance, you know, there’s still people in our world living primitively there’s people who are living very much in a technological AI world. So you see how there’s so much variance

and when you say kind of evolve or primitively.

I have, I think I got a pretty good idea what you’re saying, but are you saying basically at some people just won’t make it to the next kind of state that they should be in or they’re just going to live poorly or like, what do you mean?

See, I don’t believe in shooting, you know, are like shooting on me or anyone because everyone has their own life and purpose.

Right. So dogs going to be a dog and maybe next life there’ll be a human, I guess what you’re saying now. Yeah. So that’s the reincarnation aspect of how I believe. So if someone eats Doritos, smoke cigarettes, drinks, alcohol, they’re going to live out their life purpose to whatever it is. Or if you look at like a guy from SunLife organics who completely shifted his life and how now has these juicing places and yo you know, healthy things, people can make a shift, you know, and it’s not any.

Like forced to do. That’s an internal thing, you know? So I, I truly believe everyone’s, life’s purpose is their life’s purpose. And if they decide to upgrade their consciousness, that’s going to be a sovereign personal choice and then they’re going to do it. And then and it could be even a downgrade of consciousness.


very much so. Right. Yeah. And, and kind of that’s, it’s interesting. Cause that’s what. More where I, how I grew up as is believing a lot of those different things. And the religion that I grew up in was very much in the reincarnation of kind of moving your soul to the next journey next step, and try to move up.

Of course

C and then there is no hierarchy though. That’s where the sovereignty and the unity comes from because the dog and the, and the, and the, the very evolved person hold the same amount of power that creates the. The same godly energy that circulates in that dog is in that human too. That’s the only way we will be able to see them.

On this dimension. So what does success look like for you? So success for me, I’ve been around, you know, outwardly successful people and I’ve been around people who I never thought would be successful or is successful, but successful to me is feeling really good. And the being so nervous system is happy.

Physical body is happy. Sex life is intact and fruitful. Finances are, are good. Friendships are really strong. Community is strong. So I don’t want to be rich and lonely. I’m not going to be that guy. I don’t care about that. That’s not my end goal. My end goal is to be surrounded by loving, amazing trustful people who are creating in this world.

And, and, and it’s, there’s no like unseen unsaid competition. Creating beautiful creations together and sovereignty, you know, so success to me is being able to give to the world, you know, and, and create with the world. So, yeah.

So what do you think what are you proudest of that you’ve have you’ve accomplished.

So it’s, it’s an internal thing. That’s proud. I don’t, I can’t be proud of it to other people because it doesn’t make sense. But for me to overcome all the physical challenges and to be, you know, an athlete to be a a competitive pickleball player, it feels. Or even tennis player, whatever it is.

I felt like that could have never happened in my life, just from all the difficulties I had from just walking. So that to me is such a thing I’m very proud of. You know, I feel like that’s an accomplishment. Absolutely. Yeah.

Anything that we didn’t cover that

you would like to. So I did start a rejuvenation center in Costa Rica.

I started this thing called blue zones, rejuvenation. I had a tragic incident after I was working for my family’s business and I wasn’t in integrity and I wasn’t living my passion and I lost part of my finger. Oh, wow. I’d never noticed that. Yeah. So I lost part of my finger in a boating accident. I was wakesurfing and a rope got cutter on my arm and I pulled my hand back and it caught my finger and it completely changed my life.

Spirituality wasn’t on the back burner. It was like on the front burner and I was ready to follow my dreams and start third eye and do all the things before I started third, I started blue zones, which blue zones. I dunno if you know who Dan Bittner is. He’s probably a 10 time bestselling author of the blue zones book.

He was a national geographic photographer who made his name and did some amazing things. And. Places around the world that people lived over a hundred years consistently. And that’s what called blue zones. So I studied the blue zones. I got into it and I created a rejuvenation center in Costa Rica called Costa Rica called blue zones rejuvenation center.

So I left everything. I took all the money I had and I invested into this hotel and we converted into a center and we started doing these things and I just fell in love with Costa Rica and retreat. We got a season, this, this letter from a guy named Dan Bittner who wrote those books. And my partners were lawyers who did not want to change the name.

And I was like, I just want to do retreats. You know? So they were like adamant about it. I was like, you know what, I’m going back to Austin. And, and in that time, a gentleman gave me some investment to, to start making elixirs. So I started this whole business, just making it like. And in my retreats, I used to make these really awesome elixirs, cacao, elixirs, and golden milks and all these things to help people feel good in their body.

And that’s kinda how I started out. Third eye is really

interesting. And so is, is that retreats still there?

And no, they went. I was kind of the, the brain around the whole business. They went back to the hotel, but I did build a yoga teak, so they did get to

keep it, keep it. And do you still travel back to Costa

Rica often?

Or I haven’t. You know, I desire to go back, but other places that I desire to put some energy into, it’s so

hard. There’s so many amazing places in the world. I actually haven’t been to Costa Rica because my wife has been multiple times. We’ve been to Nicaragua. I had an amazing experience there and I loved it.

They’ve got good,

good cow there too. I’m sure they do. I’m

there, right? I mean, they’re right next to Costa Rica. One way that she described Nicaragua is it’s like Costa Rica, but like 20 years ago before it got so popular, The days it’s not near as popular because we, you know, we have a pretty negative commentation and of the area as Americans, but also it has had some political instability over the years.

There’s been a, there’s a million people from Canada. They’re like, they’re like, yeah, it took me 14 hours to get here. I’m like, yeah, I got here in six hours, you know, like, or, or five and, you know, from Austin, cause it’s straight south and pretty easy. And they just don’t have that negative connotation of the area.

And then there all the time, and there’s fantastic surfing. And you can say on Alma temp is this like volcano that you can stay on and right up on a horseback and just, and it’s cost nothing like literally nothing.

My friend has a property up. She owns a property that she, she doesn’t know if she’s gonna go back to but it’s crazy because you can own property there, very inexpensively.

And but there is a little bit of fear around the local war that’s happening there and you can lose it all. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

When we were there you know, we weren’t stupid. Didn’t do anything crazy, but we felt totally safe at the time and that obviously could be fluid, but we were, there was, and also it’s a touristy.

And the fact of the Nicaragua Nicaragua’s touristy, which is nothing like touristy places that are known to house travelers, just fine. Airbnb, places like that. So, yeah. And this is my last question. I end every podcast with this. How would you like to be remembered? Yeah.

Yeah, so in India they have this thing called

So someone who is heart giving, you know, someone who. Is able to give, you know, with less thought involved, you know, so obviously having good boundaries of what I need to do to take care of myself, but being able to give with a good heart and that’s something I feel like is really important. I love it.

Yeah. Well, Neil,

thank you so much for being on the podcast. Thank you for having me. Pleasure. Yeah,

that’s great. Cheers. Yeah. Cheers.

With your own money, would you buy a house right now or would you wait until the economy settles?

Oh, I’m buying, I think more wealth is going to be created right now than name your time period in the past, right? The last five years, three years, 10 years, whatever you want to say. And the deal right now is debt.

As investors we feel pretty good about our ability to borrow something at 4% and get more than a 4% return. I’m buying right now. I’m financing. Because these interest rates and the terms are so advantageous for those who understand it and are in a position to be able to act on it.


Alright, I got Greg Cohen here on the Establishing Your Empire podcast. Thanks so much for joining me, Greg, Greg he’s co-founder JWB real estate. and it’s like Kayden in Florida, which is what’s great about this, virtual podcast. We can talk to people all over the world. A few crazy stats that I’ve read about the JW B capital is 3,500 plus rental properties that you guys have managed over $26 billion in positive cashflow, which is, sounds crazy to your clients.

And you have like over 1200 clients. So, very excited. Cause I think real estate is very it’s interesting time. the market’s crazy right now and, I think I’m very excited to have you on the podcast. Well, thank you. Thank you so much for having me. This is a blast. Yeah. My first easy question or a super hard one is, you know, you know, what’s your elevator pitch, you know, who is Greg Cohen?

Right? Well, so I am the guy who, came from corporate America and, thought I kind of had it all figured out as far as what I wanted my career to be. In college and post college, and I got to corporate America and I realized that that was not the place for me. And, you know, what I ended up doing was grabbing one of my best friends and who was also jobless at the time.

And, you know, I was interested in making a career move and, and we started reading books on real estate and started watching late night infomercials and started going to real estate conferences. And I’m the guy who scared the hell out of his parents and everybody around him and left that corporate job to go and chase a real estate dream.

That everybody thought was crazy. And you know, 15 years later it’s been an incredible ride. You know, we’ve been blessed to, to bring on a large number of clients who place their trust in us. And at the end of the day, we make real estate investing easy for people. There’s a lot of people out there that are either too busy or they live in a market where they can’t buy rental properties.

but they want to, they want to own rental properties. And so. Within our company, we’re able to make that possible. We help people build a portfolio of rental properties. They get to buy them from us. These are already built or renovated. They already have a tenant in place. And then we do the property management in house for them.

So whereas people are kind of searching for an alternative to investing in the stock market and you know, they look at bonds and those really don’t produce really decent yields right now. But they want something safe and consistent. They can come to rental property, invest, and you can be as simple as investing in the stock market.

And that’s really what we’re all about. I love it. So let’s go back a little bit. so corporate America, you were, you had a corporate job, so I have a very similar story or for a big company. And, you know, just wasn’t for me, but like, so how did you actually start a company? Like you said, a lot of fun things that you kind of did some research, you know?

and, and I guess this was probably like, Early two thousands, probably. So how did, how did you actually start? I think a lot of people get stuck with the, they have an idea. They want to do something that they can’t take that first step really hard for me. If, if you knew me in college and even before then, I was not destined to be an entrepreneur.

I still am not a classic entrepreneur. I’m somebody who had a best friend who is a, who is a classic entrepreneur who was new. It was my first business partners. I now I now have a total of three business partners. and that entrepreneurial spirit is, is within Alex, who was my first business partner, but not with me.

I was the guy who thought that it was going to be learning and working up the corporate ladder. And there was a part of me that really enjoyed that process and enjoyed that security growing up. My parents were not entrepreneurs or not entrepreneurs in my family, nobody that invest in real estate in my family prior to me starting this company.

And, so it was not something that was easy or natural. You know, for me, the reason why it was something that I did was because combination of new, realizing that the pain of staying in corporate America and looking at what my life was, I thought going to become was greater than the pain me going out there and falling on my face for me.

I’ve never had a real fear of failure. It’s just, I guess I credit that to my parents for. Allowing me the space to go out there and fail and not really like connecting that and my self worth. And so that was a pretty easy kind of hurdle to overcome for me. But the pain of staying in corporate America in my specific situation, specific situation, it was really bad.

I had a bad manager, a bad situation that was backstabbing, and I was like a 22, 23 year old kid. And when I said to myself as if I really do have plans to try to be a mover and a shaker and work my way up, the corporate ladder and people are stabbing me in the back at age 22 or 23, when I’m a nobody in this company what’s going to happen is I really try to take a step forward and try to leave and try to.

To make gains. I just, I just envisioned that it would only become worse. And so, and you mentioned that you had, you started with a partner and then now you have multiple partners. That’s always been kind of an area that, I haven’t really gone into as much. I did start my first company with, with a partner and that one was a little easier, cause he was a, more of a mentor situation for me.

But I need advice with finding a partner or keeping a partner happy in any way, any direction you want to go there. Yeah. It’s been 15 years now that we’ve been together as business partners. it was, I started with my, my best friend who is Alex and we started the company together and six months later, Well, we had our first employee who, we hired a $10 an hour and quickly realized that, you know, he was somebody that we wanted that was going to help grow the pie of the company.

And so we brought him on as a business partner and then in 2010, that was about five years into the company we brought on our fourth business partner, atomizer. And so. Now we have a structure of making decisions in our company that is very different, done a number of podcasts and number of speaking opportunities, just specifically on how there’s like a four headed decision-making monster here at JWB.

And then we all have different titles. I happen to be the chief marketing officer and there’s. Adam is our CEO. We have one of my other business partners is also named Adam, which is fun. He’s our CFO. And then Alex is our president. So we have different roles and responsibilities and titles and whatnot.

But when it comes to making decisions, we view ourselves as a four headed monster. As far as being quote unquote DCEO. And how do you do that? Well, it’s not very normal. You know, usually you have to have that defined, you know, who is making the decision here, but we’ve gone a different approach. And we really believe that if we leaned in with a lack of ego and with empathy, and with a consensus decision making methodology that we would make better decisions.

And that’s something that takes a lot of humility. It’s something that is really difficult because if you know my business partners and me, we are some of the most stubborn guys you will ever meet, you know, and it. If you have some guys that have had some success over 15 years and have built up, but these organization, and they’re also stubborn, it makes it that much harder for them to back down if they don’t, you know, if you’re not going with their decision.

Right. And I think I can certainly, I’m certainly, that is my natural state. I want to do what I think is right. but what we also learned is that when there’s four of us moving in one direction, there’s nothing we can’t do. And so the benefit of four of us agreeing to this consensus decision making rather than voting, has been huge because what consensus requires is that not only do you agree with what the consensus is, is that you fully give yourself to that decision and you do not have the ability to SAPLAT to sabotage either knowingly or subconsciously.

And when you vote. If it’s a two versus one, or even a two versus tune boat, and somebody goes in one direction versus another subconsciously, you’re already pulling yourself in the opposite direction, if you didn’t get your way. And so it was a, it was, it was something that we learned, learned from a great mentor of ours.

We made that because quite frankly, many years ago now, I mean, she’s probably eight years, nine years ago. That was part of our toughest time as leaders. And it was because we weren’t, concentrically making decisions. We were, we were, we were voting and then, you know, there was some stuff, some sabotage, not knowingly, but just the first lovely.

so, so what happens when somebody doesn’t agree? Like somebody doesn’t want, like one person doesn’t want to go in that direction, what happens through it? And until that person says, I suppose, and if he does the support, just, it drops. It’s done. Nice. Well that, well, that’s great. Cause the thing about having, you know, it is interesting cause you know, we’re talking about voting well it’s even numbers, so that makes voting already difficult.

And then also it is interesting, cause it probably does slow you down in some ways, but speed you up in the ways that should speed you up in. Right. Cause if you’re all for going, wanting to do that item. It’s probably going to get done pretty quickly. But if like you were saying, that’s an interesting take on it to where if, you know, two of you really want to, but to two, you know, don’t really care or want to focus in different directions that might, the decision making process might be slower, but the actual actions of making those, those services or projects or whatever it might be, might actually end up being much quicker.

So why do we see those first five years , trials and tribulations, any ups downs that you that are fun to talk about? If you could think of about the wrong time to start a real estate business with. Couple of guys, three guys, you had no real estate experience, no money, no experience in business.

Overall 2006, which is when we started, would be about the wrong time to start a business in real estate. And that’s what we did. so, you know, in 2006, we bought about 40 rental properties. we were borrowed to the Hill. we borrowed, you know, bank financing, which, you know, generally those interest rates were six, 7% at that time, which sounds really high today, but not, not incredibly high, but we would borrow additional money to be able to buy those properties and then renovate those properties.

And so we had some really big, really big holding costs. And at that point, now we bought them the right way, meaning that they produce positive cash flow. So that was in our favor. And that was always our, you know, a belief. The number one rule when investing in real estate should be that it should be positively cash flowing, but, you know, we had never really been through a recession before we had never seen home prices drop.

We didn’t think they were going to drop. Nobody did in 2006. Now in 2007, 2008, 2009. I know what happened. The market crashed and prices fell over 35% in Jacksonville. And so you had these two or three guys at that time who had all of their money borrowed in 40 rental properties. And you would think that that was about the worst situation you would think that we had to, you know, give those properties back to the bank or shut down shop or do whatever.

But that wasn’t the case. And we learned a lot through it. We learned that cashflow is the number one reason why you invest because home prices fell but rent and right state rent rates stayed consistent in Jacksonville. And that allowed us on a monthly basis to continue to earn that positive cashflow.

People were still renting homes for us. People were still paying rent and it didn’t matter to us that the home values dropped so much on paper, because this was always a part of our longterm retirement plan. You know, we were investing not to sell it in one year, two years or three years, we were investing to sell it.

Maybe never, right. I still own those properties today and a whole bunch more. And so the plan was always to hold onto those for 10 20, maybe 30 years or more. so what we learned was the difference between positive cashflow and then your net worth on paper or net worth on paper was a Bismal in 2008.

Right? but our cashflow was nice. And so it allowed us to continue to grow. we contrary to what a lot of people did. We made investments in people in systems, we hired, we grew our business and we couldn’t have done that without consistent cashflow. So it was, but that’s me telling the story, you know, 15 years later, 13 years later, right?

At that time you want to talk about trials and tribulations. So scary, so scary for us. I mean, there were many days and many nights where I was like, what are we going to do? Because I knew how the fundamentals work, but I didn’t know. I was still still on pins and needles waiting for the other shoe to drop.

you didn’t know that 30% was the, you know, it could have kept going. You didn’t know that that was it right. Kinda kept going. Yeah. People are like, this is going to keep going. I don’t know if real estate’s ever going to come back and we’re like, so we did more research and we looked into it and we realized how market cycles work.

And, the really cool thing is that what we also learned through this experience now that we’ve been through a market cycle, you know, market cycle is generally known between 10 to 20 years. You know, even though home prices fell about 35% in Jacksonville from 2006 to 2009, the actual average appreciation rate in Jacksonville going back for the full market cycle is still over 4%.

So, if you look from 2001 to 2020, and you looked at the average appreciation rate per year, it’s over 4%. So what that shows you is that supply and demand work in real estate over a full market cycle. And if you buy and hold rental properties for the long haul, you’re going to end up with home values, appreciating as long as you’re in for a market cycle.

What about let’s jump ahead. 2020, 2021. COVID interesting economically, this kind of crisis that could happen. China is getting more powerful. Do you see, you know, do you think this housing bubble is one gonna happen and could it be worse? Any thoughts around like this, this world that we’re in right now?

I had a lot of questions, from current clients, folks who were thinking about investing in real estate and they’re saying, well, I love. Rental properties. I love positive cash flow, but if I could, if I know that home values are going to drop in six months or a year and two years, should I wait to purchase.

And so we really did a deep dive on the numbers, a couple of things to point out, you know, and it’s a little bit different than what common knowledge it’s most people think because of what happened in 2008, that anytime you hear the word recession, you automatically think housing crash, but actually that’s not the truth in four of the five previous recessions.

Home values actually appreciate the one recession where they didn’t go down was 2008 when home values dropped. And the big reason why that one is different is because real estate and lending practices caused the recession in 2008. Whereas they did not cause the four of the previous five recessions. So when you know, and this is prior to Kobe, we got a lot of this question cause people, if we can put ourselves back what it was like prior to Kobe, everybody was saying, well, we’ve had such a bull market for so long things, are the values have gone up.

Things are gonna, it’s going to be a bubble it’s going to pop. And so that was really interesting just to have that basic kind of knowledge, that if we did go into a recession, it does not automatically mean housing prices are going to crash. And what about supply and demand of these rental properties?

Are we seeing, are you seeing any cause obviously with the houses, just that the residential houses housing, the supply is very low. Is there anything happening there? Absolutely. So now, if we look towards this COVID reality people again at the beginning were saying, Oh, well, if people can’t go outside and buy a house, then you’re going to find that housing prices are going to crash.

And on our show and on our podcast, I came out and I said, I don’t spec house. It’s the prices to go down. And people are like, wait a second. Like, how can you possibly think that? Because housing prices really, there’s not a national real estate market. It’s all hyper-local. And you have to look at supply and demand in that hyper local market here.

And in Jacksonville, just like you mentioned, in many places across the country, we see an extreme housing shortage. And the best way to measure this is what’s called months of inventory. So you basically take the number of homes that are on the market in that month and the divided by the number of homes that sold for the previous month.

So if you had 8,000 properties on the multiple listing service in your area and a thousand properties sold last month, and that would be eight months of inventory. And historically six to seven months of inventory is known as an equilibrium market, and that would lead to historical average appreciation rates.

And Jacksonville happens to be 4.3% of the average historical home price appreciation rate. So if you’ve got six to seven months of inventory, you’re looking at an average amount of a home price appreciation. If you’re below six, You’re you’re looking at increased higher than average home price appreciation in the short run.

And if you’re over for seven and the higher over seven years, yo you would see downward pressure on pricing and lower than normal home price appreciation and potentially approach. Appreciate approaching, you know, a drop in prices. So since 2000, yeah, 14, since JWB started tracking months of inventory every single month.

Okay. We haven’t even touched six months of inventory. Since 2016, we haven’t gone above three months of inventory. And just last month, as we were doing the June data release, we had the highest number of home sales in Jacksonville’s history. We had 3,100 home sales, which is the most we’ve ever had in any month.

And we still have this shortage of, of, of inventory as well. We actually have 2.3 months of inventory in Jacksonville as of June. 2020. So when people are concerned about what’s going to happen with pricing right now, I don’t see housing prices going down anytime soon. What this means is that we could withstand a significant drop in the number of home sales.

Before you start to see prices even get to average historical home price, appreciation rates. So that’s why I came pretty strong in the beginning in March, instead of, I just didn’t see this leading to a decrease in home prices. And the other thing I shared with people is that, you know, buying rental properties is a beautiful thing compared to buying stocks because in the stock market, you’re, you’re trying to time the market.

You’re trying to. Bet on whether the value of the, you know, appreciate or depreciate, right. And rental property investing. That’s the least most important thing, right. Because if you buy today short term pricing, Matters the least, you’re also getting all this incredible rent that’s coming to you, right?

Which results in a positive income to you every single month, you’ve got tax savings. You’ve got principal pay down. Now you have this incredible opportunity to secure longterm interest rates at like 4%, which is incredible. so if you are trying to time the market and rental properties and even makes less sense.

Because you’re giving up all this real income that you could be getting for three months, six months a year while you’re potentially waiting for the market to drop. And even if it does, I’ve been through that before. And if you give it a long enough time period, it’s going to come back. So, so yeah, I keep pretty strong with that.

It’s nice to see that now home prices are falling. What we predicted at JWB. And I don’t see home prices going down anytime in the near future. And my main indication would be looking at months of inventory. If something would change. It’s pretty low supply right now. Just like you were mentioning. Yeah, Austin, Texas is really low here and prices are going through the roof.

what about, there’s so many different directions we go. What about single family homes versus multifamily? Like, you know, you hear like grant Cardone and all them just preaching the multifamily really strong. If somebody had a financial Mount of resources, they would invest, which we all do, I guess.

like w w I mean, do you have a favorite there where to put your money? I like multifamily. I like single family, but I put all my money in single family. And the reason is because I think Jacksonville is the best market and it’s largely market specific as to whether or not multifamily might be the best approach for you.

Or a single family, in the Northeast, there’s a ton multifamily properties and they can make great investments because you get economies of scale. You have reduced vacancy risk, you have one roof to fix. If it, you know, something breaks instead of three or four roofs to fix. So, you know, I liked that value there, but in Jacksonville, the way the housing stock is, you know, our neighborhoods are built in the fifties and sixties and it’s largely single family detached.

Housing, if, and the reason is because there are multiple the family properties in Jacksonville, but they’re not in the cashflow neighborhoods that I want you to be investing in. Right. Those are in low income neighborhoods and low income is not the best place for you longterm because you have such high turnover costs that I check that it’s not even on my list of where I would invest myself or where I put our clients.

So we’re looking for that cashflow sweet spot below middle income, but not low income. And so you just don’t see multifamily properties in that space very often. Let’s say somebody who’s, you know, you were pretty young when you started in this business. Like how much money does somebody need to get into to get into real estate?

Cause a lot of people get really nervous about that. They’re like, Oh, that’s something when I have a lot of money. Right. So how, how does one start? You know, it’s the whole idea of the no money down, you know, getting into real estate thing really makes me cringe. When you’re talking about rental properties, it’s not real right.

You need to have an investment. So for a typical investment property with JWB at a minimum, you’re looking at about $40,000, including your down payment, plus your closing costs. you know, that’s putting either 20% down or 25% down, plus your closing costs. So there is a cap contribution that, you know, you can’t around that without getting really creative.

And the reality is that the person who is best suited for this type of investment, this to be passive, you know, once just to be something that’s kind of like mailbox money, this isn’t that type of person who wants to be super creative and he wants to go and, you know, Be a little bit more active, like, like a house flipper, right.

A house flipper. It was out there. They want to get out there and figure out how to fight. Lansing can work to put a little as money down as possible. And I get all that. But you know, for rental properties, especially who we serve, it’s really that passive approach. And those folks generally want it to be very vanilla.

Okay. 20% down, 25% down. So it works kind of well. but that doesn’t mean that there aren’t ways for you to buy properties, buy rental properties, even if you don’t have $40,000 of capital right now. the first place that I would tell people to look at is their retirement accounts. Because many people actually have money in their retirement accounts.

They could invest in rental properties, but they didn’t think that they could do that. They thought it wasn’t a lie. and at the same time, most Americans are so heavily invested with their retirement account money in the stock market. That it’s really not a diversified and allocated portfolio as it is.

So. Be able to take some of those chips off the table, as far as what you have invested in the stock market to reallocate those into rental properties might be about place to find capital that you didn’t know you had, that you could put into it, different asset class. there are other things that you can do as well.

You know, when I first started, I had great, I had great credit. I knew the property that I wanted to purchase. I just didn’t have a down payment. And so I, I went to my dad and I said, dad, let me go ahead and be the credit partner on this. Will you let me borrow the down payment. And so, you know, maybe family, maybe in your circle of friends, maybe you have colleagues at work that you’re looking at potentially getting in this, in this together, kind of work out like a great team sport.

You know, you may be able to be the credit partner as a person. Your colleague may be able to be the down payment partner and you guys might split the property 50 50, or. You know, you may be the credit partner he may, or she may give you a loan and then you can pay them back with the positive cashflow over time.

that’s what I did with my dad. It was the loan. And when, when you, and when you say the credit partner, although I think I understand it just for some people who might not that that’s basically who’s whose name’s on the loan. Is that what you mean by that? I assume so. So they’re on the hook of course, but there are no cash in right.

$0 in . That’s great. That’s a great way also to partner with somebody. And, you know, partnerships are always great. A lot of people will get really weird about those. Now it is a little bit like a marriage, so don’t just jump in and with the first person who’s going to give you 40 grand, right? Cause you’re going to be tied to that person for awhile, but, it’s a great way to expedite your goals and get to other things.

What about 0% interest rates? Sounds crazy. Right. You know, cheap money. Lot of times, that’s a way to artificially mess with the market as led astray. That just happens. Right. It’s not really a natural way because that should never be right. so what’s your, what’s your take on, when did you, when do you think that will rise?

I know it’s hard to predict obviously, but. So you’re talking about like our, our national, like what the fed is doing. Yeah. You know, the number one goal for the fed right now is to keep our economy from going into shambles. And, you know, as the us economy, we have this incredible ability is to print money.

and so if you look at what’s, what’s the, what’s the lesser of two evils printing as much money as it takes to support our economy right now, knowing that there’s going to be a build if you paid later, but at the same time, you’re. You’re you’re leading to inflation, which is making that bill easier to pay out.

That’s kind of what the fed is doing right now. They’re pumping a ton of money into the economy and there’s this huge bill to be paid, but the more money that they pump into it inflation actually devalues debt. So it’s making it easier to pay down. So that’s what the fed is doing. They’re going to continue to do that because the alternative right now is so disastrous.

So. You know if I get it too. And it’s, it’s, it’s a, it’s a crazy thought process, but yeah. Does actually make sense too. and it, you know, I’ve heard of this, where basically every percentage point that the interest rates go down 10%, it goes up and, and housing prices. And I think we’re seeing some of that supply and demand plus this interest rates.

So, and I think you already answered this, but I’m going to ask it more directly. Like with your own money, would you buy a house right now or would you wait until the economy settles? Oh, I’m buying. I am buying so much right now. In fact, an article just came out literally, before I jumped on with you, we made a significant investment and downtown Jacksonville bought a, the federal reserve building downtown, which was the former federal reserve building many years ago.

it was a, it’s a vacant building. We bought it for $1.8 million. We’re going to do an extensive renovation to it. It’s our second purchase. Downtown Jacksonville. in this year and we have a few more coming. and so we’re making significant investments, not just in commercial buildings downtown. We continue to buy, we’ll buy about 700.

Rental properties this year as well, either lots or properties that will then renovate and turn into rental properties as well. And so I’m, I am buying a lot. I think more wealth is going to be created right now than name your time period in the past, right? The last five years, three years, 10 years, whatever you want to say.

And the deal right now is debt deal right now is being able to borrow at 4% for 30 years. Because Dan, you know, as investors, right? We feel pretty good about our ability to borrow something at 4% and earn better than a 4% return, you know, you know, and for you to have that locked in for 30 years is an incredible opportunity, right?

There’s never been a better time to understand the difference between good debt and bad debt and good debt is. Yeah. Taking out debt that is inexpensive. So think a 4% interest rate that’s incredibly inexpensive taking out that debt on something that pays you every single no month. So like a rental property, you take out that 4% debt you make the pay.

Amen. And more money comes back to you every single month. So it’s positively cash flowing. And then you’re investing in an asset that goes up over time. If you’re in for the long haul, it’s been shown and proven that real estate tends to go up in value and that’s smart debt. So you do need to understand it, be responsive, cool about it, but I’m buying right now, I’m financing because these interest rates and the terms are so advantageous for those who understand it and are in a position to be able to act upon it.

So, what about everybody talks? Well, not everyone. It’s a ver it’s a kind of common tale that your own, your own house is the number one moneymaking wealth creation investment that you’ll ever have. I mean, and I don’t know if I’m asking this question correctly, but is that something that you believe or when you, when you just, what I just heard, what you say is more like, get something that’s cashflow positive that to me, does that mean your own house?

Right? I don’t even know what the question is there any thoughts? A hundred percent. I don’t think your personal house is your greatest investment that you’ll ever make. I don’t think it is an asset. I think it’s a liability. you know, the first book I ever read in my transition from corporate America into the life that I have now is rich dad.

Poor dad. It read that book there. Yeah. Great book. Right. Robert Kiyosaki, the author and his definition of an asset versus a liability is pretty simple. And I adopt the same thing. Right. An asset is something that pays for itself and pays you every single month. The liability is something that you paid for every single month.

Right? Well, for my rental properties, they pay me every single month. Boom, their assets, my personal house. I pay a lot of money out the door. That is a liability, right. There is nobody that I’m not I’m renting out rooms. There’s no money coming in. There’s just house payments. There’s utilities. There’s. You know, the gardening that I have to pay for that my wife wants right now.

Like, you know, those, those that’s, that’s the liability. Now it’s a liability that I love. And I still think longterm that owning my house is a, is a, when they use that word investment, but I do, it does go up in value. So it’s not the worst liability to have out there, but it’s, it’s a liability, in the short run.

So, you know, a lot of clients come to us from California, New York and some of these high, high price markets. And they’ll say, you know what? I was looking at the numbers and I’m thinking about buying my own residence, but I gotta spend a million dollars to buy this house. You know, that’s like me putting down 300 grand to buy the house or something like that.

What if I took that 300 grand and I bought six rental properties in Jacksonville. Do you think that would be a good idea? And for a lot of a lot of folks, especially in the high price markets, that’s a great idea because what you’re doing is you’re setting yourself up for such a strong financial future.

and rent in those places is less than what your payments are going to be on your house when you’re, when you’re buying in California. So, yeah, I think it can be, a great opportunity for people to look at that and their own personal situations, but don’t just assume that your, your personal house is going to be your best, biggest invest investment.

It probably won’t be. So in, in Jackson, well, I’m from Kansas, right? So I’m from this college town where you buy a house, let’s say you spend a hundred thousand dollars to make math easy. You’re expecting like a thousand dollars rent, you know, ish, right. Maybe eight 50, 900, 1100, depending on the place. In Austin, Texas, you spent a hundred thousand dollars, which doesn’t happen.

You probably get $300 a month rent. Right? Where do you see? I mean, obviously the higher number, the better, but actually, where do you see that land? Like, I always heard this, heard that be called the 1% rule, whatever, and I see my first house was in college. I had three tenants with me. I bought it with.

$2,000 down. And I grew up very poor, so I had no money, but I’ve made it work and it was great and was able to sell it as a w was able to sell it at a profit. But of course that house was $74,000 of course, a long time ago, but still, What where’s kind of the sweet spot. Where are you, where do you kind of see that you could actually make investments at?

Right? I think that’s real. Yeah. Well, I think your number one rule when you’re buying rental properties has to be that it pays for itself. There has to be positive cash flow because I believe in acquiring assets and not liabilities, but then the question is, okay, do I always go with the market that has the best rent to price ratio?

Do I always focus on. The most positive cashflow, a lot of investors come to Jacksonville with this question. And I always ask him, you know, are you looking at this just because you want the best positive cashflow or do you want the best total return on your money? Because one of the best things about rental property investing is the other profit centers not named positive cashflow.

Right? We’ve got tax savings from depreciation, from a tax perspective, not from the value depreciation, but the IRS giving you tax breaks. We’ve got principal paydown we’ve got home price appreciation, and then we’ve got the value of inflation. De-valuing your debt. So the longer you hold the asset, it’s a hedge against inflation.

So you’ve got all these other profit centers. And what I really challenged investors to look at and understand is what’s most important to them, right? If you want just the biggest gains out there. And you’re willing to take whatever risk you’re going to go to a market like California, like San Francisco.

And you’re going to buy a house that’s a liability every single month and hope that you get 10% appreciation for three years. So you can make a hundred thousand dollars or something like that. Right. That’s one end of the spectrum. And that’s not how I subscribe because that’s a liability because you’re paying money and every single month.

You could go to the other end of the spectrum and go to a market like Kansas city is a, is a great markets from a cashflow perspective, right? You might even be able to get close to the 1% rule like you were talking about there, but what you get is a great rental price ratio, but the other profit centers don’t really compare.

You look at the longterm appreciation rate for a market like Kansas city or like Cleveland or Memphis, these historically grow well below the national average. And you know, when we’re talking to not investing in rental properties, we’re not talking about assets. That cost a hundred. Yeah. So the difference between, you know, an asset that appreciates at 2% a year versus an asset that appreciates that 4% a year, Over 20 years that you’re holding it is a big deal.

So when you ask, you know, where’s that sweet spot when I tell folks is number one, the market has to positively cashflow after that point, right? Would I rather have an additional hundred bucks a month of capital on the same return? But I have to be in a no growth market or a slow growth market, or would I rather have positive cashflow, maybe not the most positive cash flow, but be in a market that’s going to grow longterm, my personal opinion and what our clients think is it’s better to have the best of all worlds all the time as profit centers, because after a 10, yeah, you’re a 20 year hold.

You’re going to look back at your investment, including home price appreciation. You’re going to make a lot more by being in a growth market. I love it. So I got a couple and we could, if we want to, we could wrap a firearm. We could do it however you want, because I know we have a time constraint. so this one might be interesting question for you is, the future of realtors with more automations the world, getting a much easier.

I think it’s a, it’s an area that hasn’t really done a whole lot of innovation, a long time. Any thoughts on the future of realtors? It’s tough. I thing is going to be tough for real estate agents. You know, you got to look at the value that you’re providing for a long time. The value that real estate agents provided was access to the multiple listing service.

That is a lot of that has gone away now, right? I mean, Zillow really changed the game and you’ve got a whole lot more now of other players that are just making it accessible, that information accessible. Prior to COVID. We had, I buyers, so Zillow and other big players were actually making offers for people to buy their house, basically sight unseen, you know, and these were offers our slightly below market value, but still a lot higher than what that person would have to sell it for typically, if they were gonna sell it to a, a house flipper, you know?

So you’re S and what that means for real estate agencies. They’re not involved in that as well. There’s another option for people to basically sell their house, make it less friction and have all access to information. So all of these, the things I think spell really big problems for your typical, the middle real estate agent.

That doesn’t mean that there’s not going to be a value for somebody to be a resource, to help people buy their house. I think that’s going to be more valuable than ever. But the typical model and earning 6% or 3% on the sale to just list the house and let the listing with let the buyer come to you. I think is I don’t, I don’t see that lasting lasting right now.

And I just think that’s, that’s going to be a dead way of, of doing this. Did you know that? And I, my sister lives in Australia, nobody buys houses through a real estate agent in Australia. Yeah. They have auctions in Australia. And so, yeah, so, you know, I, that blew my mind. So they haven’t seen the value in your team, typical real estate relationship or real realtor relationship and Australia for a long time.

And I, I, it’s a great point. I haven’t been asked that question in a while, but I think realtors are really challenged now to figure out their best value proposition. Yeah. And, and, and innovate, you know, it’s a, it’s an area that is, is not wanting to innovate. they say they are, but they, I have real estate agents that are clients of mine too.

So I’m very in tune to that world. And they do really, they do great jobs, but, you know, at what, like, I think your best point there was, is it six or 3% on a million dollar property? Is that really what we’re paying for here? You know, and I think of some of the stuff we do for our clients for a couple thousand dollars.

And it’s like very touching to call on a lot more, probably touch points. And like, it might, it might not, might not be, I don’t know, but I think, I think also a lot of people get worried about listing their million dollar property without somebody to handhold it. So I do think that there will be some innovation that will come slower.

I did think COVID Mo was going to put a little more pressure, but it didn’t actually put less pressure, but, we’ll see what the future holds. I do have a question like what’s a, what’s the next five years, 10 years for you. Like what, what’s your kind of future outlook? What are you, what are you doing?

Anything new, different I’ll I’ll stay in the same area or some other, well, we’re committed to Jacksonville. There are a lot of other turnkey providers out there that go to multiple markets. They just have a different approach than we do. We really believe that we can make the most impact and create the best investments and limit the risk by being here, being active in the community, being a big part of downtown Jacksonville.

So, so we’re gonna here. my three business partners and I olives here near the beach here in Jacksonville. We live a few streets away from each other. We all have young families. so the thought of leaving Jacksonville is just not even on our radar, which is great. It makes our clients feel a lot more comfortable as well.

And it’s, it’s what we personally want to do. But as far as the business, it’s a really exciting time at JWB because you know, for so long, you know, it’s our 50th year in business. Now we started it with just a couple of us in the beginning. Just kind of fit you’re in this thing out on the fly. As we’ve grown, we’ve now established, layers of management with really incredible leaders that have been grown from within.

and, and that’s incredible. We’ve made some huge investments in our technology. We made a big investment in Salesforce have started a couple of years ago and have continued to invest in that. And we’ll, we’ll continue. We’ll continue to spend a lot of money with Salesforce many, many years going forward.

What about, what about, Do you do any short term rental, Airbnb, anything like that? but, and have you, what do you think about that, that market that, that doing that? You know, I think it’s, there are so many different ways that you can make a return on your investment in rental properties and in real estate in general.

And that can be a great way to earn a rate of return for some folks, you know, for me, and the way my mind works and the way our client’s minds work is a big value of this as being passive. And having everything done for you. And so what, what I feel like is that if I can win on this passive nature and have it all for me and have longterm leases in place, I mean, our average tenant stays over four years.

So like that kind of set it in for data model and just consistency means a lot to me. If I have to give up a potential, a couple of points of return, potentially in order to secure that. I’m okay with that. You know, this doesn’t have to be my home run. rental properties don’t have to be my home run.

So that’s, that’s how I feel. So now, when it comes to short term rentals, it’s pretty close to rental properties, but it’s not the same thing. You know, they’re short term rental leases are, you know, many times a day or a week. Right. Or, you know, something like that, that, so the constant turnover is a lot, you know, things break more often, right?

I mean, you’ve got to repair a whole bunch of stuff. If you’re doing it for yourself and you’re saving that property management fee, that’s a much more active approach for you. You’ll probably earn a better cash on cash return. I would imagine. But you’re putting in your time. A lot of times when you look at what their returns are, if you include that property manager, they’re pretty close to what the longterm rental yields are.

When you factor in that you don’t have nearly as much maintenance or vacancy costs or turnover. So, you know, it’s something that I think you can make a little bit more money and maybe even a lot more money on a cashflow basis. If you’re willing to put the work in, if this passive nature is the most important thing for you.

I think rental properties and securing longterm leases is really, you know, that’s the best kind of risk adjusted return that also kind of fits with the lifestyle. What about what’s your what’s you guys’ approach to marketing? How do you guys get clients? Like how does it, how does it happen? I’m trying to get on the Daran Herrman podcast forever.

I mean, geez. You know, you know, I keep pushing you back, right? No, thank you for this opportunity now, you know, our approach is really about investing a lot in the client experience and getting referrals. So over half of our business comes from referrals. It’s always been that way. We don’t spend a lot of money on your traditional advertising sources.

We invest a lot in the client relationships, and then we do a lot on social and we do a lot of, kind of just. You know, being there, being substantive and being in front of clients. So we have a show that we do twice a week and that’s really been our best return on our investment is just simply being there, being ourselves rather than shelling out a whole bunch of money on billboards or radio, or all of those apps spent a ton of money on that years and years ago.

And it just never paid off. And even the clients that we brought on board from those traditional advertising sources, it just didn’t come in with as much trust. And, you know, sometimes, you know, if there was a complaint to be had, it was more often one of those folks that came from one of those kind of like non-trusting lead sources.

And so, yeah, so we just pump all of our efforts into our client experience. Our, our motto. You know, it comes down to the fact that if you, if you want to come to JWB and you want to buy properties, you typically want to build a portfolio of maybe three, five, 10 rental properties. Well, if we just simply do a good job and we know what your plan is, you’re probably gonna come back and buy all those properties with us.

Cause you live in California, New York and you don’t want to go and find a new partner if you don’t have to. You know? So, so that’s really, what’s helping. What does success look like for you? Success for me personally. you know, it’s, I just think there’s no substitute for time spent with the people that you prioritize in your life.

So, you know, more than a dollar figure or more than some achievement or whatnot. I just look at, you know, the amount of days that, I get to go and be with my eight year old playing basketball with her, or my six year old, he’s really into golf right now. So, you know, getting to take him, you know, maybe.

being able to do that on a weekly basis and, you know, flexibility in my schedule is the most important thing. I’m never going to be that guy who wants to work, you know, 20 hours a week. I enjoy working. but I like to do it on a schedule that can also work with the priorities that I have. So I’m your guy who was up at five o’clock in the morning and, you know, if I can get out early and, you know, take my son golfing in the afternoon, that gives me a feeling of accomplishment.

you know, I just really like to be remembered. and that’s a tough one. I haven’t been asked that one. I feel like I’m too old, too young to be asked this question there. you know, I just think the, the way that you treat people is really important to me, the way you communicate and really. Tough times and good times should always be with a kind heart and truly trying to do the best for people.

So that’s the way that I like to be remembered. Hi, Greg. It was a big pleasure to have you on the establishing your empire podcast. I appreciate your time. you know, being Florida sounds like a great place. If you’re here, if you love to go play golf, you know, like you said, with your son and so that’d be really enjoyable.

So, All right, man. Well, I really, really appreciate you having it, having you on. Thank you so much, man. We’ll get you down here sometime soon. Daran. I’ve got that. That’s that’s right. Actually, my, my wife’s parents just bought a place in the keys, so we’ll we’re gonna, yeah, so I drive from Austin, just, you know, our 20 stop in Jacksonville, Florida.

Yeah. All right. Bye man. Cheers. See you later. Bye bye.

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