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Embrace Pain to Avoid Suffering


Brian Bogert is a passionate human behavior and performance coach, speaker and philanthropic leader who believes in helping growth-minded individuals achieve the best version of themselves: their most authentic selves. Brian’s strategy is to embrace pain to avoid suffering and has helped individuals and companies break beyond their normal to achieve the success in life and business that they’ve always wanted. Brian teaches how to leverage radical authenticity and awareness to create the intentional life you’ve been dreaming of, but have struggled to create.

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If you can do something that you’re passionate about, but also have a secure nut so you’re not worried about living and your survival’s being taken care of. Then you have some gestation period between success or failure and success, you know, so I’ve truly believed you’ve got to keep hitting the ball.

All of that experience is something that I love because I learned how to communicate and connect. And it was just a beautiful experience, you know? So. Yeah, I mean, I failed, but it was, it was beautiful.


All right. I got Neil here on the establishing your empire podcast. Thanks so much for coming by the house and doing this.

Thank you for having me. I’m. I want to just say, I apologize for all the scheduling issues, trying to get this going. It’s been it’s been a time when I’ve been making some transitions and, and I appreciate your.


course, you know, the thing about a podcast, it’s always a want to have not a need to have. So I totally understand. And it actually happens. Yeah. It’s not the first time know it will be less. So luckily I get to do these at my home office, so I don’t have to like go someplace or schedule something. So it’s not, not too difficult to set up, but why don’t we start off with the seemingly easy question, but not always.

It’s just tell us a little bit about yourself.

Who are you, Neil? Yeah. So grew up in Minnesota. And my parents you know, came from India. So I have an Indian background and basically lived a pretty nice childhood. My grandparents raised me, my parents were both entrepreneurs and were very much into work.

So I had a childhood. And I got really amazing wisdom for my grandparents. My grandparents were into aryuveda and all these amazing things. And my dad was kind of more of an entertainer salesperson type vibe got into janitorial or janitorial products and stuff. But mostly he was a fun person to be around and he taught me how to dance.

And I used to dance like Michael Jackson as a business, as a child. So I had a very interesting childhood. I was like one of the only Indian kids in my, in my town. So I felt somewhat special and different, but also had a pretty normal childhood for the most part. I had some traumas for sure. Broke my hips and my legs and all sorts of things, probably due to some dancing and also just, you know, parenting in the way that they were parented, you know, which is a common theme in most people’s stories.

Which leads me to some of the work I do. But yeah, grew up in Minnesota loved tennis and table tennis and racquet sports

that actually, yeah. Yeah, for

sure. But yeah, overall just had a pretty cool life there. Certain things definitely like, you know, are my roots in Minnesota still, but overall, now, Texas man.

And how long have you been here in Austin? I’ve been here

eight years. Oh yeah. Nice. Since 2008. So I’ve been here for a little bit as well and seeing the growth and the change. Austin has been both positive and negative. I’ve enjoyed seeing the city grow and I’d rather be in a growing city than a dying city, but there’s also some.

You know, the life changes out of the city. Right. So why don’t you tell us a little bit more real quick and we can go through kind of how you got there, but tell us, like, when, when you talk about your businesses, you are now, what’s kind of the main thing that you’re doing. Cause it seems like there’s a lot


Yeah. So the main thing would be cacao that’s that’s the thing that I’m most passionate. And it was also a big part of my healing journey is using various plant medicine and then noticing how cacao this chocolate bean can, can make someone so much happier and also take them out of their, their head with.

You know, I used to drink coffee and teas and all these things that would put me very stimulated and this was really amazing. And so I asked myself, you know, this is my passion, what can I do about it? And I wanted to focus on creating more ceremonial cacao on this planet. 95% of the cacao in this world is hybridized.

And, and it’s kind of like a sacred thing that I believe can have a lot of change and help a lot of people. Needs to be preserved. So what’s the difference between

cacao and chocolate?

So chocolate is like an after thought of what the original thing is, which is cacao. And a lot of times as a Dutch process of alkalizing and making cacao into chocolate.

So it’s it’s kind of like taking sugar cane and making it into some form of sugar. But it’s not the original thing as such and most of the chocolate you find is not the original the actual genetics of chocolate. So,

and like, so people that are sitting at the cows probably extremely small compared to like what, where it should be like on those journey with cacao, like what stage or level do you think you’re at or want to get to at, or wherever you want to

take that.

Right. So, I mean, I feel like I’m at a stage where I can taste and feel and know a lot about what I’m consuming. It’s kinda like a Somia in wine. When you consume something enough and various types, you get a knowledge about it. And I feel like I have a pretty solid knowledge about it. I’d love to still learn more.

And then also I’ve been meeting connections through the cacao world. And there’s people who specialize in keeping the sacred bean and my dream and my goal. And my next investment is only focused on standardizing that process and making sure that people start labeling that, making sure the ceremonial beans are rectified, notified, and know people know that they’re consuming.

It’s a lot of times, you know, you get this fair trade and it’s, it’s nothing like that. It’s just. Something

and because it was just my lack of knowledge. Like some, when you say seminar, ceremonial, excuse me. Like what’s it actually mean? Like is that is actually actually what we do in a ceremony or is it something


It’s all of the it’s a ceremony is the actual genetics. So there’s three types of genetics beans that are well-known Trinitarios, Creole, and Fronterra. So these types of things. Are the ceremonial beans, the original beans that were found in 7,500 years ago, potentially in the rainforest potentially either Ecuador, Peru, it’s still, no one really knows, you know proof says it’s found first their equity versus his boundaries there.

But I used to work for the rainforest partnership and I learned a lot about some of the details on the history and a lot of the actual science behind it. So ceremony is conducted definitely with intention. So. It’s not like you’re making your morning cup of Joe. But you can do that with ceremony, like a cow and you you’re basically setting your intention.

You’re doing some form of energy release, so it could be breath work. It could be movement, it could be dance. It could be even journaling for that matter, but various traditions have different ways of activating the medic. And you literally are almost, you know, praying and into the cup and drinking it.

And then going through some form of catharsis, like a cathartic release, where you’re able to feel incense and emotion that hasn’t been seen and are held and you’re able to express it and fully move through it. And how

is that based upon the actual, what you’re drinking and then and how much is your for less

of it?

It’s, it’s there. I mean, you can’t drink a cow and go to sleep. You know, it’s going to do something to you and just that. And it has all these amazing bliss molecules. There’s actual chemicals in. A medicine that activates releases oxytocin. So the first time you fall in love that energy is in the body.

And if you’re aware of it, you’re going to feel it. Yeah. And you know, so for

me, that’s super interesting. Cause I think we always have emotions tied to a lot for things. Foods want them drinks, coffee, all this. And I think a lot of people have some positive and negative emotions to coffee. I wasn’t a big coffee drinker.

I was, I’m more of a, I like a lot. So like. Which is still, you know, a higher stimulant caffeine, but we did our honeymoon in Africa, on a safari and, you know, they serve your coffee and it’s like this fantastic coffee outside your door, right. When you wake up. And so I don’t, I’ve been drinking coffee more now.

Cause I think I just, you know, have this positive emotions towards it, but I still only like the cold brew because I just don’t. I think it’s too acidic. I think in my mind so I think a lot of us are looking for that stimulate and what I, what I’ve found that if I, you know, coffee, a lot of times isn’t enough.

I have to actually be out and move around because I sit in front of a computer all day. So how can somebody that just a normal, like, you know, office worker or whatever. This is something in the morning type of thing.

What do you recommend? Yeah, so coffee and cacao are kind of like, then they’re like the opposites of each other.

They both have similar ingredients. Both of them have theobromine, but the amount of theobromine in cacao is like the amount of caffeine in coffee. You, so it’s like complete opposite in that sense. There’s still coffee, caffeine. And. But it’s kind of the amount where it, instead of energetically bringing you a lot here, it brings you a lot here.

It’s, it’s literally theobromine is a hard opener. That’s what it’s made to do. So it’s definitely something anyone can consume. And I think it’s better for work for me. I feel like being in a happier place when I’m working feels better. And if you look at my organization, everyone seems to be more joyful.

But just like anything, moderation is very important. So I. Even cacao fasts, and one cup of coffee requires 32 glasses of water to balance your internal pH. So just like anything, like if you’re on a honeymoon and you’re drinking really good wine from France, you know, that’s going to be amazing. And our body has certain limitations, right.

So if we’re not actually healthy, it has some form of. Anything can be not so good for us. Right. I feel that way about it. Mostly. Yeah. I mean, I think

balance is not just in food and drinks. It’s just about everything. Why don’t you? Well, let’s back up, but I love that because it’s just something, I have very little knowledge of it, but I’m always interested in, in you know, new things and trying to.

You know, work in front of the computer. Like I said, it’s not, it’s not everyday I can get out and about, and I am a very energetic type of a person to always looking for new ways to do that. But let’s talk about kind of your journey a little bit. So, so you were, you did a lot of dancing as a kid. Like what, what, what, tell me go any way anywhere you want to go in the path?

Yeah, sure. So you know, in Minnesota I was dancing. I had a lot of fun. Expressing myself, but then there was the trauma part. So that’s kind of like the work even cacao helps with is is that, so, you know, I went to college in Wisconsin and in Florida, as well as England, I went to three different colleges and I studied hospitality and the reason I got into hospitality is my father was in pharmaceuticals.

And he used to travel a lot and I used to go visit with him and these awesome hotels. And I just loved the feeling of people being taken care of and just this amazing people, love food. And I love food. I’m a foodie myself. And it was like learning that, that hospitality feeling of, of creating a space where people feel welcome and at home.

So that’s the path I went on. And, and then I was working at a hotel. I was 21 years old. I was a director of catering for 300. And I had gained so much weight from just the Western lifestyle. And that’s when I went back into what my grandparents taught me, the, you know, the way my grandma would procure and garden, and my grandpa would go to like four or five different stores and markets to get the right foods and the right vegetables.

It was that I learned that sensitivity. And, and in that sensitivity, I. Implementing aryuveda and implementing the doses and balance and went down that path. So a cacao and all those things came later on in life, but it was first healing, the body and healing the mind and healing the soul and getting out of the toxic lifestyle that I was living.

So, and then how

I actually, like, you know, I’m sure 24 years old, 20, 25, how did you actually move to that next step? Right. You’re working in a job, you know, that’s unhealthy, but like some of those. It’s sometimes it’s really hard for people

to move out of that. Totally. It was, it was addicting. I was getting paid very well.

I was in a partnership with a very beautiful human and we were connected from college and we were on the marriage path and everything. And my parents came up to me one morning and told me we have an amazing opportunity. My parents have a janitorial and sanitation supply company and a company in India.

One of the largest companies in. Approached us to do a joint venture. So my parents were like, we need you to leave your job and we’re moving to India. And so my, my partner and I both moved to India and we started working and doing this joint venture. The joint venture took a long time and a lot of money.

And in that process, I took my American express card and I started. Importing care team. My mom was flying into New York city before she to drive in India and getting care team treatments done. So it basically takes your, your fuzzy frizzy hair and it makes it flat and beautiful for a period of four to six months.

So I, I contacted my mom’s salon and I started, I became the first, the only importer of care team in India. So that’s, that was one of the things I did for three years. And my mom is still doing that. So that was, that was like going to India and immersing myself in the culture. It became really easy to just start living healthily and having support.

For someone who’s

never been to India. Just a quick side question, like where what’s your favorite places where to go?

What do you love about India? India is like, I feel like I’m such a culturally fruitful place where people just are comfortable being with each other. I love India. And I love the food and just the very, the, the, just the variants that are there.

You know, you go to north India, south India, it’s so different everywhere in even the way they consume, even the way they believe in terms of spirituality. So different. My favorite place is called gold. And go is like a peninsula. And it’s one of the most beautiful places. If you asked me it’s been owned by the Portuguese a lot and no one really owns Goa.

It goes between India and various governments. And it’s just one of those very sovereign places where people go to vacation and people go from all over the world. Kind of like Bali. I don’t know if you’ve been to Bali or I haven’t.

Yeah, but obviously

know about Bali, but you know, the BGS and the John Lennon and all those guys used to go in and create palaces there.

And there’s beautiful places all over and it’s amazing. It’s like scooter life, you, you drive a scooter around. Eat fresh food and it’s really good.

That sounds amazing. So you’re importing and doing all this, what happens next? W why, why did you stop doing it? I

guess, stopped. So, you know, it was part of my own growth, you know, like as an Indian son, only one Indian son, Belief that I had to take care of my family and I had to create something for them in order for their lives to move forward.

And it was all these things that I had to work through in order to start fulfilling my own dreams and my own passions and carotene. Wasn’t my passion. So I decided to go back to the U S and rebuild my life again. And, and I had different thoughts on what I wanted to do with that business. I also became very aware of health and just the way.

The world worked in certain ways of, of just toxins and things. And I truly believe that keratin wasn’t good for humans, you know, personally. So I didn’t want to put my energy into it anymore, you know? And so I came back and I hustled and, and rebuilt myself. And yeah, it was cool. So what was the next thing that you

did that was successful or

anything that, yeah, so I started another business.

It was called outstanding dining. It was kind of like a group on for restaurants, family owned restaurant. And local charities. So charities that I believed in and, and so I would tie them together and it was basically like an app and I got, I think 75 local, Minnesota restaurants signed up and we were doing that for a bit.

And then, yeah, it wasn’t, it wasn’t something that really took off, but

w w well, one of the questions I like to ask about, like, starting something like that is there’s always so many want to be entrepreneurs. And they always want to start something. And you know, I think one of the traits of entrepreneurship is maybe just allowing, not hearing all the no’s before you start or whatever it is, but like any tips or tricks, I’ve just actually getting started with that


Yeah. I mean, If you can do something that you’re passionate about, but also have a secure, not say you’re not worried about living, you know, your survival’s being taken care of. Then you have some gestation period between success or failure and success, you know, so I truly believe you got to keep hitting that.

You know, like the only way you’re going to be able to hit that ball with confidence and authority is, is by not doing that first. You know? So I, I just, all of that experience is something that I love because I learned how to communicate and connect and it was just a beautiful experience, you know? So yeah, I mean, I failed, but it was, it was beautiful.


and did you have like a side hustle that you were watching perhaps,

or. It’s still in the hospitality industry. I was a general manager for a hotel and arrested. Even in between those years, I was a chef at a restaurant. I also was a bartender. I ran a, a local that’s actually not local it’s based in Denver, but it was a pop-up bartending service.

So I was a manager of that. I did all these things, you know, just to keep the doors open and keep moving. You know,

it’s so funny. It’s very civil me. I’m always doing multiple things, but chef real quick. What’s your favorite? Like seasoning, like if you have a go-to one that you just kind of always have to have.

Yeah. So it’s not a have to have, but I’d really love truffle. Okay. Yeah. I can go for, you know, making anything truffle, like, you know, it has its own grounding feel to it and it’s nice. Yeah. Yeah. And

that, that took off where now a lot of things aren’t actual truffle,

but truffle it’s true.

Yeah. Ma I think mine would have to be lemon pepper is, seems so basic.

It can take some very boring dishes and at least give some life to it at least a little bit. And if you don’t have lemon pepper, then you know, obviously lemons and pepper work actually even better, but just a little bit more effort to put in there. So what was one of the things that maybe worked or didn’t work that’s of note with the with, I forget what the business was that we were doing.

Yeah. That the hot, that, where you had the multiple


areas, what did, what worked and didn’t work? Yeah. Yeah, just getting into the heart of like, getting to know people and getting to know what they needed and being able to communicate from the heart space, that was like the best experience. And also recognizing like my dream of wanting to own a restaurant needed it.

It’s still there, but I knew that there was time between when I was going to start it and you know, all of that, just like learning. Absorb wisdom, you know, and, and see the hard work people put into their business and then try to be there for them in the most integral way possible. So, yeah, I mean, that was, that was, it was a loss in the sense, like, I couldn’t fulfill all their dreams, but I got to at least experience, you know, a lot of what it takes to be a restaurant owner.

So what kind of restaurant would you want? Yeah, I’ve got an, I’ve got a really good idea. It’s a farm to table. Are you Vedic restaurant? So like, I love Casa and I’m a huge fan of Casa. But I would love to make something like Casa, but more plant like flavor. And I’m more of the curries and the, and the, in the long take, like things that take a long time to make like the long taken curries and the boss monkeys, rice, and the and things, making something like that, where it happens serves only once a day.

But food is being created all day, you know, and that you can taste that flavor in that work it’s been created. So I think some of

that was great because one just like tactically, like something can show up and get their food pretty quickly. Right. Because it’s, it’s ready to go and you can make it in mass.

Right. As opposed to. Having everything being very specific. And then you could also tell really great stories around your ingredients because it’s in season or you got at the certain farm or whatever. I could see that doing really well. Also with that. Is this something that you could do pop-ups with, you can start that way, right.

And to test some stuff out,

you know, Casa allows me to cook in their restaurant and I’ve done it a few times where I’ve had a Curry nights and things. And I

give a little quick background on Casa. Cause there’s a lot of people I actually have there’s all over the world. So sometimes they

won’t. So let me tell you a little bit about Casa, Casa de.

Is a macrobiotic restaurant, but it’s also like a spiritual center. It’s a space, a community space where they have facilities all over my business. Third eye meditation lounge is inside, along with another other businesses. And it’s a beautiful nonprofit been around for 30 years. Serving similar food for 30 years and it’s all a hundred percent organic.

They try to do as local as possible. And it literally feels like integrity. Just walking into the space. It’s like this beautiful, very tropical feeling that you are.

I feel like you’re in a different country, but you walk in and it’s like downtown Austin, which I’m sure 30 years ago was not even downtown at all.

Right on the way from downtown to Zilker park or something. But. Let’s see, actually, that’s take a side note because there’s so many different areas. I do want to talk about meditation because I think. Something that’s very helpful, helpful for a lot of people, but a lot of people don’t know who or where to start.

And we can talk about it in any direction you want to go. I do think that people would get some value on like how to start meditating and where to,

yeah. I’ll just talk about a few things about meditation that I know that’s based on my experience. You know, I believe we all, I believe that the. The body keeps the score and the issues are in the tissues and our nervous system and how we feel in our body is really important on how much you can meditate.

So if you don’t feel good in your body, it’s going to be more difficult for you to manage. It’s gonna be more difficult to calm the nervous system down and to process certain things within the body. So, I mean, for me, I started out and I went to Vipassana and I did the 10 day silent meditation retreat, which helped me face a lot of.

Has helped me face a lot of my trauma and, and allow the feelings that I wouldn’t allow myself to feel that come up. And that was very helpful from there. I learned all sorts of techniques and ways to meditate and, and also heal my body. Cause I think it’s a simultaneous thing. You, you, you can meditate, you know, forever.

But then you can also integrate some of that stuff. So it’s kind of like taking. I re a backpack when you need a suitcase. And if you, if you don’t heal the body, it’s going to feel like you’re always on a shorter journey than you could be on. Essentially. Does that make sense? It does.

And I’ll take it another side note.

Cause as though it was fun. So you’re like the third pipe, probably fourth or fifth, actually they have done these, you know, these long-term silent retreats, right? Maybe walk us through a little bit of that a little bit more. Cause I think it’s so interesting. Something that I haven’t done, but it’s

something that I’m very interest.

Yeah. So I went to the DAMA, Siri, Kaufman, Texas, it’s this organization is beautiful. They have these centers around the world and it’s, donation-based they take care of you, housing, food, you know, everything you need. And it’s just this little room that you get and it’s so beautiful. This. So my experience was I walked into this room.

I have my suitcase, and there’s nothing really that you can bring into this other than like clothes and that’s it. No supplements, just you. And it was really cool. So I walk in this room. I’m in here, got a schedule. And it’s basically 10 hours or so of meditation or learning your there’s some, some classwork.

There’s a, there’s a, a man who started his foundation who’s passed and he’s got videos that you listen to every night. The cool thing about it is if you’re, if you’re with what, what has happened. Every question you have gets answered in those videos each night, which is interesting. This guy obviously put this program together with a lot of intention and you do have questions.

I feel like I had questions and you can’t really speak to anybody about it. So this, this video at night, it was really helpful, but it’s basically breakfast at six in the morning. You get a lunch, a small lunch, and then a small dinner, and then you’re basically. One hour meditations is happening every, every hour.

And then you, you’re kind of like just in a spot where you don’t move for an hour. Each time the meditation happens. And the first three days you’re concentrating only on the air that’s coming out of your nose. And then it goes deeper. So there’s different practices that you’re learning, but really you’re learning body awareness.

You’re learning sensations, and you’re also learning to come up and feel the blocks because there will be blocks that come up when you’re not dealing with anything in the world, other than yourself. You will start to feel some of the things that are potentially within you. And do you

go in there with like a goal and, you

know, I, you know, I, I did

like a business idea or this or that, or relationship

health, or I think after the first one, you could probably do more of that.

Maybe if you do come in with the goal, that goal might not be apparent. If you face something else within your soul’s journey. You know, so I don’t want to say, you know, I know,

right? Yeah. Because you’ve been through it and back to just the normal meditation, I think a lot of people have troubles quieting their brain.

And obviously it’s very easy to reach for your phone or TV or, or whatever it is or a drink, or you can go on a large list there. What’s some just basic tips. I think for someone who. You know, they, they hear that 10 day retreat and that that’s way too much, but maybe they’re starting to feel like they need to start doing something.

What’s a great way to just,

yeah, totally. There’s some really cool techniques that you can do prior to meditation. So I say getting all the energy that stagnant or anything that’s within the body, getting that up, moving, shaking a tap. That’s really good. And then there’s also these little devices you can get there’s meditation devices, you can actually use they can do light therapy.

There’s something called a NuCalm, which puts Gabba on your PCIX. Right. Right here, it’s an acupuncture pressure point and it literally helps you shut down the brain. And then there’s followed by that there’s actual sounds that connect with the GABA and helped you get into a meditative state. So I actually love that.

I use that on a lot of my clients. And that’s just great for anybody you do that for an hour or half an hour, even it’s like four or five, six hours of additional sleep that your body receives from that transmission. So it’s

interesting that you say the tabbing cause I, what I do use in this, I guess you could be in the meditative area, but when I get nervous, I count my breasts and tap my fingers.

And I’ll do a three and three out just to kind of reset myself. And what’s great is you could do it without anybody knowing it’s, especially before you know, you’re giving a big speech or something. It’s a great way to just quit thinking about all the, what ifs and all these nervousness that are popping up and just focus on breathing.

And I think the tapping helps with that. It was Tony Robbins that I heard that did that. I don’t remember where it was from, but that’s what was very helpful. That’s very basic because he could just do it on the side. And you’ve kind of talked about, and I know we were going to jump around the journey, but you’ve talked about clients.

So when, when you say that

what’s that mean project, me and my partner, and a few other healers, it’s called a rooted integration project, a rooted integration project.com. It’s basically a four week program where we help reset the nervous system, get the gut health, the brain health, the heart health, and creating basically more, more coherence.

So we use heart math. We use a Tre, which is tremor release exercises. A lot of times trauma is stuck in the psoas and we help release just basic trauma in the body. And then we teach various meditative techniques, clearing technique. And we also have a shaman who helps with some ceremony work. So plant medicine potentially can be used, but we meet people where they’re at.

And most importantly is for people to help develop a secure attachment to them. So they understand, you know, what they’re bringing to the world and understand the separateness and the connectedness in between.

What’s kind of a, either a normal client or an ideal

client for you guys. Yeah. So someone who potentially, you know, has trauma or has found awareness with the trauma, doesn’t know how to actually heal or integrate someone who’s taken plant medicine who needs some support.

Someone who’s lost a family member, anybody who’s needing emotional connectedness, also inner child healing. So we, we do regression work. We do a lot of emotional work, so people are having hard time accessing their emotions. We help them do that. Yeah.

So it’s kind of, you know, I guess a different way of kind of a psychologist with a little bit of you know, but also with the body, it sounds like too, kind of the

merging of all the bodies, mind, body spirit.

So all of it.

Yeah. I’ll I’ll yeah, that’s a great way to put it. And how’d you even get into that stuff, obviously, you’ve you kind of have this interesting path and you were getting more connected to yourself. And then a follow up question with that is how did you make that into a business? Cause that’s something that’s super interesting.

I think a lot of people start getting involved in these unique areas that might not be so mainstream, but then they just kind of keep it to themselves or just

do with their friends. I studied tantra, I learned seven levels of a lineage and I just started teaching. I had a clients about 10 years ago.

I started. Just implementing all the things I learned after two years of celibacy, after going through my own progress of the program, I learned from this couple who’ve been teaching for 40 plus years. They were 70 plus years old and they had all this energy and vitality and I was. Sign me up, you know, so that was my first teaching.

I become certified in somatics and Reiki and all sorts of things. But Tanisha was for me, one of the most important things that I wanted to bring to the Western world in an appropriate integral way. So I started teaching the COVID. And I did this a hundred day celibacy course about seven or eight years ago here in Austin.

And it was a huge success. I think we, we made like 50 grand, you know, and it was awesome. It was like, wow, this, this actually is great. And, and to this day, a lot of these students are people very much involved in my life and I’ve seen so much progress from it. I believe you have to root down to right.

And tantra is one of the greatest tools to root down, to rise up, to get strong in your core and your mulabandha and in the lower parts. And so it was tantra that taught me a lot of these foundational work. And from there, I just studied everything I could possibly study. And I put together a program based on what I thought worked best.

And it’s always improving. I’m always taking more courses and learning more that I can implement with this project.

So what about the haters that sit there and say that. You making money off of this stuff. Do you have any, any flack in that

area? Of course, money and I think is very powerful. And you know, if you’ve read rich dad, poor dad, you know, you’ll understand just the basic concepts and power around money and.

If you value something and, and you want to do something about it, money has to be exchanged. And I think that’s important. So I

see money as fuel, right? And because you have to have it, and let’s say in your field, if you want to reach five people and stuff like that, that’s fine. You don’t have to, you don’t have to charge for it.

But if you want to reach 5,000 or 5 million, you’re going to have to have some fuel

a hundred percent, a hundred percent. If I don’t feel comfortable with the work I’m doing, if I don’t feel. In that exchange. I don’t want to be there. And it’s it’s energy for me to be able to share that space. So I value it.

It’s not cheap. Our program is $4,000 per month and I don’t think that’s a small investment. It’s a mortgage for some people. So, you know, nice mortgage.

Yeah. But you know, it’s also investment in yourself is what in a lot of people that want it want to get to the next level. To me selling on value is different than selling.

Like, you know, I’m going to give you these four attributes to whatever you’re saying. Hey, what if I can. Really some blockage of you. So you could invest in some place or starting a company, or

not only that is preventative medicine, right? So it’s genetic work that we do that help prevent things that are in your genetic line.

So we do actual gene work. It’s crazy. Like you can prevent a lot of things that your parents went through. If you get awareness, And that’s, that’s all it is. And that you can’t pay. If you can’t go to the Western, you can’t go to a doctor and you can’t even go to a psychologist to find that information it’s deep work.


I say, you know, parents of alcoholic or something is that, and that’s kinda what you’re saying is,

and fix something like that. Not even fix it first, we figured out the root of how it started. That’s how trauma works. It’s it’s, it’s something that happened too fast, too quick, too soon. You didn’t have any way of, of processing or.

Finding the ground from there. So you’re still holding something that’s nervous in the body. That’s, that’s how trauma works, really. So it could be that they’re traumatized from something within their family line that caused the alcoholic gene to turn on. So we then find that and access it and process and heal.


was it. Are there any traumatic trauma there that you would like to share that, that you went through that got you on this


I mean, I went through a lot of things with my own father and my mother that, you know, definitely taught me a lot about how to even recognize trauma. I didn’t even know I was traumatized for so long and that’s a lot of people’s story.

Sometimes people think that this happy go lucky lifestyle in life. And trauma, what happens is it when it comes up you get to see some of the parts and the areas in which these patterns are stored and you get to heal, not just that aspect, but your, your family’s reason for carrying it too. So it’s really beautiful.

The circle that happens. Wait, sorry, what was the question again? There was

some traumatic stuff that you .

So when I was a child, I walked into a party with my parents and very nice lush. Beautiful home. And, and I don’t know exactly what it was, but there was an energy there and this, this person was unbuttoning my coat and fondling me right in front of my father.

And for a long time, that was an unprocessed trauma that caused me to not first of all, trust men, my father, and we had a huge gremlin between us for a long time, which got cause a lot of abandoned us and all sorts of things. But I’m at a point where I recognize. His story and all the things that created that incident, you know, and no longer causing blame and shame and all the things around that.

So, yeah.

Well thank you for sharing that’s I mean, that’s that stuff can, you know and I’m very happy also on the flip side of it, that you’ve been able to recognize it, which is a big step and then, and deal with it to move through it because you don’t want that weight

to carry around forever. Trauma you carry people’s pain.

That’s not yours. You know, so it’s like I was carrying not just my feelings and emotions, but my father’s and his emotion and reaction was also traumatic. So you get to learn these things. And

because he probably felt very, very belittled as well or worthless or whatever it would be. It’s probably more than Muslim.

It was his inner child that was present at that moment to which you get to learn some of these. Through something called completion process, it’s a form of hypnosis that I also have trained in. So yeah. W w

why don’t you give us a little bit more on that? I suppose also there’s so many different areas

and completion process is a tool designed by teal Swan.

And what it is is it’s allowing, let’s say a traumatic incident that happened in your childhood. You there’s a whole set and setting that you create in order to have your adults. Comfort your inner child during that space. So if you have had something in a feeling or emotion, or even an incident that you feel still unsafe around, there’s a, there’s a way to bring your adult self to comfort your inner child.

And that’s what the process really is. It takes about two hours. Oh, wow. Yeah.

And you know, one thing I wanted to get to as well with a lot of these sayings is let’s say that somebody who doesn’t have a lot of money doesn’t live in Austin, Texas, But has some of these, you know, this trauma or traumatic experiences that they do want to begin to work through.

You know what, what’s a good place to start.

we recommend first thing is read the book. It didn’t start with you. That book actually comes with a bunch of worksheets that I utilize for my clients as well. It’s great. It helps you start to uncover and then process. Just learning how to sense your feelings is a great way to start moving emotions that are stuck in the body.

So there’s tools start doing that, and that will bring you to the next thing, which could be yoga or whatever it is that helps start moving the energy or tapping or emotional, you know Tre you know, things like that. So you can find a Tre practitioner in every state in the world, basically. And then what’s,

what’s, you know, what’s five years out for you.

Like, what are you, what

are you looking forward to doing? Totally I hope to have. Created really amazing connections with cacao and potentially owning a farm myself or creating more sustainability for farmers traveling and, and really sharing the medicine that is cacao. I think that’s probably the focus for the next few years.

I’m also potentially working with a franchise advisor. To make third eyes something that we can bring to other cities and to bring to other communities. And that’s also goal. And our do you guys have

plans for just selling like the rock a cow? We do it. I feel like it’s do that now, right? Yeah. Yeah.

And is that more in like a powdered state in a hard, slow?

Well, what we do is we take a cow paste, which is everything that comes from the actual being other than the, than the fruit like the. So the relish or whatever you want to call it. And we, and they grind it up into a paste, so that has all the fat in it.

And when you transport that it’ll melt. Right? So we do focus on making that and we ship it cold a lot of times. But we take that paste and we, we cold crumble it into a powder so people can consume it easier. And that’s one of our flagship products is the third act of cowlick, elixir. And people just add that to their hot water and use one of those little latte mixers.

And you’ve got your morning drink. That’s a

lot of fun. And then. Take a kind of a look back like, all right. So you’ve done a lot of interesting things a bit all over the world. It sounds like. What kind of advice would you give all the way back to like, you know, 16 year old self?

Yeah. Yeah, it would be probably to read certain books, you know, and get more info, get more knowledge around certain things that I feel like I’m playing catch up on now, you know?

So yeah, I mean, it would be to also have, don’t forget to have fun. Yeah. And remember your roots, remember how important it is that that culture brought to you? You know, there was a time and a place where I felt like my culture, wasn’t something I could be proud of and that’s completely shifted as I’ve dived deeper into it.


what about any, so you talked about, you know, we just talked about what you would recommend yourself, but in any regrets or along this path?

Yeah, definitely. Not like regrets, but just. Be slower, you know, just take more time, find, find meditation quicker, you know? I think those are the things, you know I feel like I had a beautiful life, but it happened too quickly and I wish I could have just slowed down a little bit.

I feel like that’s something. And so it would say when they’re older, so it’s great that, you know, maybe we didn’t recognize that when we were 16, but you know, the younger than better to recognize slow down. And I feel like that as well. One thing that I, it was a quote I heard or something. I do firmly believe it, in order to slow down time, you have to create your new experiences because otherwise, if you’re doing the same thing every day, your brain kind of gets on autopilot.

And it’s very

forgettable. Right? I believe that in some aspect, I feel like consistency is good. But then if you can just make 1% shift within consistency. So you’re still consistent, still in the masculine, but then you’re finding creative ways to integrate that consistent thing that you’re doing. So you’re getting better at it or you’re getting optimizing it or whatever it is, you know, so, yeah.


like, and so we do like, I, you know, to have our food at certain times and having shelter had a lot of different things that need to be consistent. Yeah. What about like, I’m sure you get with a ton of these like common myths that you hear in cringe. It could be meditation. It could be in the other areas that you do, but anything that you just want to talk about that like, just kind of, you hear and you kind of

want to talk about, yeah.

So, you know, in Austin it’s really popular now, the hot bats or the hot the sauna and then the cold baths, you know, and, you know, I really feel like putting yourself in a position to be hot and cold. Can be really good for the nerve reset the nervous system sometimes, but doing that constantly doesn’t allow for gestation to happen.

So I really believe integration is being able to go from dissonance to resonance and finding consistency and being resonant. And I feel like right now in our spiritual community, in various plant medicine communities, it’s too much of the medicine. It’s too much of the. The, the party without the, the rest and the meditation and the, and the parts that require integration.

So I know it’s cool to take mushrooms and all these other things, but you know what we’re doing at third eyes, creating classes and spaces where people can integrate, you know, what they’ve learned from their journey and to really slow down, to speed up so that, you know, they have more focus and clarity.

They feel more fulfilled in their life. And I think that’s really important.

So let’s talk more about plant medicine. And I have very little knowledge in this area as in personal out knowledge, but I’m very interested in the area, right. So I’m actually just take it wherever you like it. You know what, what’s a very common questions that people have asked you, or what do you guys start with?

Like w w w

wherever we want to take it. So so in terms of health, just basically, I believe that when we’re healing, we have a lot of symptoms and when we heal too quickly, So when our body is, is doing something internally, that’s moving something too quickly. Energetically our physical body may not be able to handle it.

So you know, Plant medicine can, can be really good if let’s say you have a block that your consciousness can not overcome. Plant medicine can be helpful to help you change your state in order to move through something, you know, that can be potentially painful or traumatic or whatever it may be.

It could be even genetic that you have no idea about that you’re carrying, you know, so. Depending on what it is. There’s various different plant medicines. There’s things that open you up. There’s things that bring you in this things that is various things. So like ketamine is a disassociative. Iowasca is one of those things that can be very spirit.

It’s like a spirit molecule where it connects your soul to, you know, to the earth in a very, in a way that can be very disruptive. Can take a long time to integrate from. So that’s why I believe set and setting are super important. Let’s say you lose a partner of 20 years, you know, and you have a hard time processing it and your children are tired and you don’t have a lot of, you have a lot of time on your hands.

I asked them might be good for you, you know, but let’s say you’re an entrepreneur and you’ve got shit going on and you can’t take two months off for three months off to rest and do that. I will ask us not recommend it. I would potentially recommend maybe mushrooms, which has a quicker gestation time from recovery.

Because these are poisons in our body is going to react in a way that will heal in certain ways. If you’re, if you’re in the right space and you have the right time and you have the right dealers and support around you. So it’s really sentencing. And all these different medicines do different things.

Our Western world is becoming very open to that in our current timeframe, which is cool. However, there’s an extreme to everything, right? So. I really believe, you know, the person who’s procuring the medicine, the person who’s receiving the medicine have really good intentions is coming from a really grounded place.

And, and really decides, you know, this is what I want to do. What do you ask the right person? What they need, you know, and where do you see you kind

of the future of this? I mean, it seems like you said it, you know, the U S itself seemed like they’re becoming more and more open to some of these MDMs and stuff like that.

Where do you see

this? Yeah, like MDME are our sassafras. That’s like more of like, let’s say someone who’s been bitter for a long time, you know, it needs to find more love. It’s a good one for that. What I see it going is, do you know what spiral dynamics is? I do not know. Okay. So spiral dynamics is this, is this a.

Thought belief system in which there’s various types of consciousness that live in our planet right now that if you believe in spiral dynamics, this is the first time in our life where we have so much variety of consciousness. So there’s different groups and people and humans who live in a certain vibration live in a certain lifestyle that carry a certain vibration and consciousness.

That’s why there’s so much difference right now, this very much difference between our parents. Or grandparents and grandchildren, whatever it may be technology and various human or earth changes have created these separations. Not that it’s good or bad, but because of this new consciousness that’s coming, you know, we’re going to have a lot more evolution.

So I believe we’re going to evolve. And, and that’s what I see at our future being is being more evolved society. But with variance, you know, there’s still people in our world living primitively there’s people who are living very much in a technological AI world. So you see how there’s so much variance

and when you say kind of evolve or primitively.

I have, I think I got a pretty good idea what you’re saying, but are you saying basically at some people just won’t make it to the next kind of state that they should be in or they’re just going to live poorly or like, what do you mean?

See, I don’t believe in shooting, you know, are like shooting on me or anyone because everyone has their own life and purpose.

Right. So dogs going to be a dog and maybe next life there’ll be a human, I guess what you’re saying now. Yeah. So that’s the reincarnation aspect of how I believe. So if someone eats Doritos, smoke cigarettes, drinks, alcohol, they’re going to live out their life purpose to whatever it is. Or if you look at like a guy from SunLife organics who completely shifted his life and how now has these juicing places and yo you know, healthy things, people can make a shift, you know, and it’s not any.

Like forced to do. That’s an internal thing, you know? So I, I truly believe everyone’s, life’s purpose is their life’s purpose. And if they decide to upgrade their consciousness, that’s going to be a sovereign personal choice and then they’re going to do it. And then and it could be even a downgrade of consciousness.


very much so. Right. Yeah. And, and kind of that’s, it’s interesting. Cause that’s what. More where I, how I grew up as is believing a lot of those different things. And the religion that I grew up in was very much in the reincarnation of kind of moving your soul to the next journey next step, and try to move up.

Of course

C and then there is no hierarchy though. That’s where the sovereignty and the unity comes from because the dog and the, and the, and the, the very evolved person hold the same amount of power that creates the. The same godly energy that circulates in that dog is in that human too. That’s the only way we will be able to see them.

On this dimension. So what does success look like for you? So success for me, I’ve been around, you know, outwardly successful people and I’ve been around people who I never thought would be successful or is successful, but successful to me is feeling really good. And the being so nervous system is happy.

Physical body is happy. Sex life is intact and fruitful. Finances are, are good. Friendships are really strong. Community is strong. So I don’t want to be rich and lonely. I’m not going to be that guy. I don’t care about that. That’s not my end goal. My end goal is to be surrounded by loving, amazing trustful people who are creating in this world.

And, and, and it’s, there’s no like unseen unsaid competition. Creating beautiful creations together and sovereignty, you know, so success to me is being able to give to the world, you know, and, and create with the world. So, yeah.

So what do you think what are you proudest of that you’ve have you’ve accomplished.

So it’s, it’s an internal thing. That’s proud. I don’t, I can’t be proud of it to other people because it doesn’t make sense. But for me to overcome all the physical challenges and to be, you know, an athlete to be a a competitive pickleball player, it feels. Or even tennis player, whatever it is.

I felt like that could have never happened in my life, just from all the difficulties I had from just walking. So that to me is such a thing I’m very proud of. You know, I feel like that’s an accomplishment. Absolutely. Yeah.

Anything that we didn’t cover that

you would like to. So I did start a rejuvenation center in Costa Rica.

I started this thing called blue zones, rejuvenation. I had a tragic incident after I was working for my family’s business and I wasn’t in integrity and I wasn’t living my passion and I lost part of my finger. Oh, wow. I’d never noticed that. Yeah. So I lost part of my finger in a boating accident. I was wakesurfing and a rope got cutter on my arm and I pulled my hand back and it caught my finger and it completely changed my life.

Spirituality wasn’t on the back burner. It was like on the front burner and I was ready to follow my dreams and start third eye and do all the things before I started third, I started blue zones, which blue zones. I dunno if you know who Dan Bittner is. He’s probably a 10 time bestselling author of the blue zones book.

He was a national geographic photographer who made his name and did some amazing things. And. Places around the world that people lived over a hundred years consistently. And that’s what called blue zones. So I studied the blue zones. I got into it and I created a rejuvenation center in Costa Rica called Costa Rica called blue zones rejuvenation center.

So I left everything. I took all the money I had and I invested into this hotel and we converted into a center and we started doing these things and I just fell in love with Costa Rica and retreat. We got a season, this, this letter from a guy named Dan Bittner who wrote those books. And my partners were lawyers who did not want to change the name.

And I was like, I just want to do retreats. You know? So they were like adamant about it. I was like, you know what, I’m going back to Austin. And, and in that time, a gentleman gave me some investment to, to start making elixirs. So I started this whole business, just making it like. And in my retreats, I used to make these really awesome elixirs, cacao, elixirs, and golden milks and all these things to help people feel good in their body.

And that’s kinda how I started out. Third eye is really

interesting. And so is, is that retreats still there?

And no, they went. I was kind of the, the brain around the whole business. They went back to the hotel, but I did build a yoga teak, so they did get to

keep it, keep it. And do you still travel back to Costa

Rica often?

Or I haven’t. You know, I desire to go back, but other places that I desire to put some energy into, it’s so

hard. There’s so many amazing places in the world. I actually haven’t been to Costa Rica because my wife has been multiple times. We’ve been to Nicaragua. I had an amazing experience there and I loved it.

They’ve got good,

good cow there too. I’m sure they do. I’m

there, right? I mean, they’re right next to Costa Rica. One way that she described Nicaragua is it’s like Costa Rica, but like 20 years ago before it got so popular, The days it’s not near as popular because we, you know, we have a pretty negative commentation and of the area as Americans, but also it has had some political instability over the years.

There’s been a, there’s a million people from Canada. They’re like, they’re like, yeah, it took me 14 hours to get here. I’m like, yeah, I got here in six hours, you know, like, or, or five and, you know, from Austin, cause it’s straight south and pretty easy. And they just don’t have that negative connotation of the area.

And then there all the time, and there’s fantastic surfing. And you can say on Alma temp is this like volcano that you can stay on and right up on a horseback and just, and it’s cost nothing like literally nothing.

My friend has a property up. She owns a property that she, she doesn’t know if she’s gonna go back to but it’s crazy because you can own property there, very inexpensively.

And but there is a little bit of fear around the local war that’s happening there and you can lose it all. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

When we were there you know, we weren’t stupid. Didn’t do anything crazy, but we felt totally safe at the time and that obviously could be fluid, but we were, there was, and also it’s a touristy.

And the fact of the Nicaragua Nicaragua’s touristy, which is nothing like touristy places that are known to house travelers, just fine. Airbnb, places like that. So, yeah. And this is my last question. I end every podcast with this. How would you like to be remembered? Yeah.

Yeah, so in India they have this thing called

So someone who is heart giving, you know, someone who. Is able to give, you know, with less thought involved, you know, so obviously having good boundaries of what I need to do to take care of myself, but being able to give with a good heart and that’s something I feel like is really important. I love it.

Yeah. Well, Neil,

thank you so much for being on the podcast. Thank you for having me. Pleasure. Yeah,

that’s great. Cheers. Yeah. Cheers.

Brian Bogert: We can embrace the pain of hitting the gym for 30 minutes a day to avoid the suffering of aches and pains of a sedentary lifestyle. We can embrace the pain of the fit. Our kids are sure to throw by taking away their mobile devices at the dinner table to avoid the suffering of years of lost, meaningful connection and conversation that we’ll never get back.

We can embrace the pain of a difficult conversation with our spouse. To avoid the suffering of a Loveless marriage that might end up in divorce or ultimately being stuck in a marriage when divorce is really what we want. We can also, as business owners, fire our top salesperson, who’s the greatest top line contributor in our business to avoid the suffering of stagnant growth and losing all of our other top talent, because they’re the biggest cancer in our culture. You see the reality of it is it’s like this applies to everything in our life. But we are so conditioned to avoid those moments of pain, to avoid those moments of discomfort. And I believe that we all must choose our pain or our suffering will choose us.


I got Brian Bogert here on the establishing your empire podcast. Thank you so much for being here. Very excited to have you on the podcast. Why don’t we just start off with give us a little bit background of who you are and what you do.

Yeah, so excited to be here. Thank you for having this platform to be able to put good in the world.

I, I love, I love starting with being able to acknowledge that it takes a lot of work, so that’s great. I want everybody who’s watching or listening right now. Just close your eyes for one second. I’ll tell you when to reopen them. I want you to imagine walking out of a store after a successful shopping trip, walking into your car, turning your head and seeing a truck barreling 40 miles an hour, right at you with no time to react.

You can open your eyes. Now that’s where this portion of my story begins. My mom, my brother, and I went to our local Walmart to get a one inch paint brush. And as we were heading to the car, I’ve always had an excitement vigor for life. It wasn’t a surprise. That was the first one of the car I got there and was waiting for my mom and brother to catch up, to unlock the doors you see, that was before we had key fobs.

We had to literally put a key in the door and unlock it, but I’m standing there. And as it was, as I was waiting, a truck pulls up in front of the store driver and middle passenger. Get out. And the passenger all the way to the right feels the truck moving backwards. So he did what any one of us would do.

And he moved over to put his foot on the brake, but he instead hit the gas combination of shock and force threw him up onto the steering wheel, up onto the dashboard. And before, you know, it, he’s kind of holding 40 miles an hour across the parking lot with no time for us to react, we were parked in an end spot.

So we went up and over the median and the end spot when I’m part of the tree hit our car and it yanked me to the ground. The truck continued to run over me, diagonally tear my spleen, leave a tire tracks, gone on my stomach and severed my left arm completely from my body. So there I am laying in the middle of the parking lot on 115 degree day in the middle of August and Phoenix.

My arm is 10 feet away. My mom and brother watched the entire thing. And so did my guardian angel is the nurse walked out of the store, right when this happened. And fortunately she saw the life and limb scenario that was in front of her. And she immediately went into action. She rushed over and put her hands on the wound to stop the bleeding and also instructed some innocent bystanders to run inside, grab a cooler, fill it with ice and get my arm on ice within minutes.

Had she not done one or both of those things? I either wouldn’t be here with you today or I’d be here today, but without a left arm. And so I’m going to expedite the rest of that, that portion of the story, because I’m sure that a lot of people are weren’t expecting it to go there today. Right. I have a very unique story, but what I’ve realized in all this time of doing this is that we all have unique stories and what’s important is that we pause and become aware of the lessons we can extract from those stories and then become intentional with how do we apply them in our lives.

So I’ll share with you before we jump in further two of those core lessons. The first is I learned not to get stuck by what had happened to me, but instead get moved by what I could do with it. And the second I didn’t realize until far later in life, because I spent so many of those post-accident years in a fog, right?

I was seven, eight, nine, 10, 11, 12 years old. And although I was very aware of what was happening to me, I also was being led through the process. My parents, however, were not in a fog. They were intimately aware of everything that was happening. And the idea of seeing their son grow up without the use of his left arm was a source of great suffering for them.

And so they willed themselves day in and day out to do what was necessary, what was tough, what was uncomfortable. And they embrace the pain to ultimately heal and strengthen me. And so, although whether intentional or not, I don’t know, but they ingrained in me a philosophy and a way of living because they taught me to embrace pain, to avoid suffering.

And I believe when this is done, right, we also gained freedom. So this was the same concept that I used to not only overcome this unique injury, but how my business partners and I built our last business from a quarter million to 15 million in the span of a decade. And now I’ve flipped it on its head as a human behavior, coach performance coach and speaker, to help hundreds of individuals and organizations, just like you become more aware, more intentional and who they already are, their most authentic selves.

You see, when we do this, that’s when the door begins to crack to perspective, motivation, and direction. And that’s when magic starts to happen in our lives and joy, freedom and fulfillment start to come in mats at such an intense introduction. I love it. So you were like seven years old when this happened, something like that?

Yeah. So I had a major accident as well through well accident and hit a a cord and last and lacerated my liver, my spleen hospital for a long period of time, stuff like that. Nothing as drastic as yours. But, you know it’s, that’s like a life changing life altering thing at any age. So it’s you know, there’s so many places to go from there, but I guess the, the, I want to want you to go a little bit more deeper into the embracing pain to reduce suffering, because I think a lot of people would hear that and be like, okay, I’m not sure what that means, or they might not understand it.

So maybe give us a little bit more depth there. Yeah. So the, the world tells us right. To reduce eliminate or avoid pain. Right. And the reality of it is it’s like a natural evolutionary response to like, we just tried to avoid pain to keep ourselves safe for a lot of years. If we look at the definition of pain, I think that’s where it’s best to start.

Right? When, when we look at pain, it’s literally defined as short-term intermittent a direct cause of something and alleviates after that direct causes removed. Well, we tend to do as human beings as we always do. We tend to change definitions with clarifying words, right. Other adjectives. And so what do we often do?

We put acute pain and chronic pain out there? Well, what’s interesting about that is when we put chronic in front of the word pain, it materially changes the definition because it implies that it’s not short term, it’s not intermittent and it doesn’t alleviate after that direct causes removed. So instead, I want us to think about this differently instead of putting the word chronic pain in front of it, anything that is longer than short term intermittent and still persists isn’t pain at all, it’s suffering.

And we don’t want to admit that suffering exists in our lives, particularly when it’s a direct result of our choices. Right? So let’s look at this concept to understand just what am I, what do I mean when I say embrace pain to avoid suffering, I’m going to get four examples because these are ones we can relate to across the board.

We can embrace the pain. I’m hitting the gym for 30 minutes a day to avoid the suffering of aches and pains of a sedentary lifestyle. We can embrace the pain of the fit. Our kids are sure to throw by taking away their mobile devices at the dinner table to avoid the suffering of years of lost, meaningful connection and conversation that we’ll never get back.

We can embrace the pain of a difficult conversation with our spouse. To avoid the suffering of a Loveless marriage that might end up in divorce or ultimately being stuck in a marriage when divorce is really what we want. We can also, as business owners, fire our top salesperson, who’s the greatest top line contributor in our business to avoid the suffering of stagnant growth and losing all of our other top talent, because they’re the biggest cancer in our culture.

You see the reality of it is it’s like this applies to everything in our life, but we are so conditioned to avoid those moments of pain, to avoid those moments of discomfort. And I believe that we all must choose our pain or suffering will choose us. And so what I’m really encouraging us to do is and we’ve got three steps that we walk through on this.

We may get to it today. We may not depending on where the conversation goes, but the reality of it is, is this is one of the most crucial things towards building towards our pathway to success. And yeah. I mean, really my first question would be like, how, okay, that’s great. If we start first, understand that we need to start embracing the pain, but how do I actually get started?

Right. Is there like some kind of daily process I can do right. To work through that soon as I first realize, okay, I have this issue that I need to work through. How do I actually go about doing it on a regular basis? Right. Absolutely. So, you know, there’s obviously multiple different steps, but I’ll hit on the three that I think are most important.

You know, first we have to start by acknowledging the suffering that we wish to avoid. And sometimes that sounds a little backwards. So people are like, wait a minute. I have to define suffering in my future life. But what that really means is if we’re really clear on what’s important, if we’re really clear on who we are, we’re really clear on the things that we want to accomplish, then anything that’s opposite of that is suffering.

Right. So you and I might be sitting here today and, and say, Hey, I want to be able to play sports at a high level with my kids well into my sixties, so that I’m in a position to also play with my grandkids depending on ages and timing, whatever. Right. So if I don’t embrace the pain of keeping myself healthy, eating right, keeping movement into my life, making sure that I can maintain my overall health right then I will ultimately suffer because I won’t be able to fulfill that dream and promise.

If I want to build a business that generates opportunity for a hundred people, right? And I want to really be able to give people the autonomy and freedom to have those types of opportunities in their life. And I view myself as the ability to build that. I have the skillset, I have the things. If I don’t embrace the pain of all the things that are necessary to do that.

And I can’t ever build my business beyond the solo preneur or two to three of us, right. Not accomplishing that can be a source of great suffering. So I always say acknowledge the suffering that we wish to avoid. Because it is the counter to getting clear on who we are and what we want to accomplish in our lives.

The second step is to identify the pains that we tend to avoid and learn to embrace them. So I’m gonna give two examples on this. Cause again, these are things that a lot of us can relate to. I will tell you, I have an imbalance in my body. I literally have a curve in my spine because I don’t have a lat on the left side of my back.

I don’t have a tricep. And my bicep is my Chrysalis from my leg. I have immediate imbalance. Which didn’t affect me for a long time in my life, but 12 to 15 years ago, as I started getting older, I started having more pain and the pain started shifting into suffering. I mean, it was debilitating it more at points.

And so what did I do? I learned that if I stayed lean, if I ate the right food, if I keep my body active and I focus a lot on core strength in general, then the suffering is reduced. It might still be a pain that I deal with on a regular basis, but it wasn’t debilitating. It wasn’t suffering. It wasn’t ever persisting.

So I joined the gym, but it’s the most logical thing to do when, you know, you need to move out and stay in good health. Right. I started going to the gym and after about a month I stopped going and I had to ask myself the question. Was it, the pain of working out that I was avoiding or was it the anxiety of working out in a crowded gym?

And for me, it was very, very clear. It was the second one. Right. And so I had to embrace the pain of creating the space, time investment in my house to build out a home gym. So I could keep myself active to do those things. Anybody, who’s an entrepreneur, a business owner, a salesperson they’re going to understand and relate to this next one, right?

There’s there’s call hesitancy that sometimes come into place. We see that 500 pound telephone that’s right in front of us. And so many people are like hesitant to pick up the phone and generate those cold calls and build, build connections. Relationships opportunities was having a conversation with somebody over the last couple of weeks.

And this was one of the biggest hurdles. So we had to really dig deep and understand, is it literally the hesitation of picking up the phone and talking to new people, building relationships, potentially adding value in their life that you’re avoiding? No, it wasn’t. In her case, it was, she literally had a fear of what success would look like.

She was afraid of what it would look like if she was successful, because she’d failed in so many other areas in her life that there was an emotional block and a trigger. So we unpacked that. We worked through that. And guess what? She’s picking up the phone as if there’s no hesitation anymore. Both of those examples.

It’s just ironic that those are both emotional triggers and behavioral patterns. And a lot of the work that we find what keeps people in those self-defeating paths is not the actual tactics that they have to deploy on. It’s some block inside of who they are. That’s keeping them from deploying on those tactics.

We have to identify the pains. We tend to avoid and learn to embrace them. Cause I’m not encouraging us to put ourselves in unnecessary amounts of pain, just for the sake of pain, but we have to identify the ones that are crucial in our pathway to success. Right. Those two examples of highlight that. And then lastly, we have to establish as a habit in all areas of our life.

So when you talk about, is there a daily practice? If there’s something that I can do, the answer is yes. Right? If we start to view this as a philosophy, that’s going to drive us where we want to go. Right? We can start to realize that the pains we have to embrace become less painful. The more often we do it, experts in habit.

Formation will tell you right, that there is what they call an up-front energy tax with any new habit. And so we view it that way often, right? That’s why new year’s resolutions fail. That’s why, like, so many things happen as people come in and it’s immediately viewed as a tax, a cost and expense in their day, whether it be by time, money, or energy.

Right. But the reality of it is if we flip that on its head and we start to view these things as an investment in our future self, and we’re very, very clear on who we are, what we want to accomplish. We know the pains that we need to embrace along the way. Right. It becomes much easier because we start to recognize it as an, as an investment in our future self.

So the free apps typically help people get on this path. So let’s go back back a little bit to your first company. Right? So, so how did that come about? Like, how did you let’s even talk about how you even started and then go through that growth process? Right. So, so how did you start that first company?

It sounds like you had a couple of partners and all that. So go, go. We were blessed that there was a larger platform, but we ultimately were a series of LLCs. And so we were a startup, but we had a bigger platform, but that doesn’t mean or guarantee success. Right. We were an unknown entity in this market.

So we had a platform to build off of, but we didn’t have the people, the structure, the resources, we just had the platform. And so, you know, when I started there, there was two of us and a quarter million dollars revenue, the team of people that they brought in right before us that had really tried to build this over the course of two years.

Really didn’t. Right. And so we had to really look at what’s the value proposition. How do we deploy this into the marketplace and how do we continue to leverage and scale so that this really can be a profitable growing building business. And so when I started, right, this was one of those things where literally I knew.

That this was going to be something where if I needed to take out the trash, I was going to take out the trash. If I needed to pick up the phones, I was gonna pick up the phones. Right. I knew that this was a part of building something and I couldn’t operate like I did in the prior five years at a bigger entity where we had resources and people to jump in and do everything.

This was, Hey, entrepreneur mindset. We’re going to literally build this from the ground up. And so I was there for about a year. Maybe just less than that. When we brought in another partner who he and I went shoulder to shoulder for a number of years, and we were kind of the silent ninjas running around in Phoenix, taking down big deals because nobody saw us coming.

Right. And we just had to backfill a lot of the things that normally we would have support around and we had to lead with revenue so that we could then invest in the right people so that we could scale ourselves the hard part about scaling any business. Right. Is that when you look at it, we as business owners, entrepreneurs, the leaders of the companies often have this belief that we’re the guy or the gal.

Like we have this belief that we’re more important than we are. And so part of that is we’ve got to embrace the pain of recognizing that like, we are not good at everything that we do. And even if we’re the ones who generate the relationship are the ones that build the trust are the ones that come in and, and start building it from the ground up the faster we get those things off our plate.

The better, because then we can go do what we do best, which has opened up doors, build relationships, add value. And so there was multiple turning points over the course of the 10 years that we, we built this where we, as partners had to sit around the table and be like, dude, you’re micromanaging. These people get out of the way, right?

Hey, the only way we’re going to grow and scale is if you’re focused on the areas that we need to, which is growing our business and maintaining key relationships with our existing clients, get out of the weeds of right. When you bring on a new client, how do you transition. And so there was four partners, ultimately, over the course of the first few years that we ended up bringing in, it was the four of us that built this primarily with amazing teams that we were able to scale and scale and build over time.

I mean, I’m just going to own it. They, all of our teams were way smarter and way more capable than any. We were just the dumb ones that knew how to open up doors. Right. And so but those, there were, there were growing pains, right. There were times where we didn’t have the right resources on the, on the floor and we had to.

Backfill it, figure it out, do things differently. You know, and sometimes sell a belief based on faith that we weren’t sure we could deliver on, but we sure figured it out pretty quickly. Right. And if we did one deal in one industry, we were experts all of a sudden. So like the reality of it is it’s like there was a lot of growing pains over that period of time and a lot of conversations and we had to change and mold our behaviors as the leaders.

Multiple times to make sure that our teams trusted us, our teams would run through walls for us and that we could show up and do what we did best. Everything is going well. Right. How, how do you leave and start your own thing? Right. So I’m sure there’s a story there. So how has, how did that transition happened?

Yeah, so, you know, I started my coaching and speaking business about six years ago. You know, what, what got me into it frankly, is I hired my first coach about seven years ago. Woke up one day after having our son and six months went by like that. And I realized I didn’t adjust anything in my life. I was burning the candle at both ends.

I always wanted to provide everything for my family. And I, it was one of the first times in my life that I didn’t have the mentors or people in my life, nor did I feel like I add the skillset or smarts to figure it out myself. So I went out and interviewed a bunch of coaches and landed on one. And within a month of working with him, he goes over it.

You gotta be doing this. And I said, yeah, yeah, whatever, I’m paying you a lot of money. And I just tell me how great I am, but let me figure out these other things. I don’t need to add something else to my plate. And he goes, no, man, you’ve been on stage since you were aged out. And like you naturally coach and elevate people in businesses, like you’re a builder.

You find ways to connect dots and help people overcome. And I said, yeah, yeah, whatever. Right. I literally dismissed it. And he trickled it with me for about nine months. And that’s when I jumped in. I tell you that, because I think that’s important context to realize, right? I had this running side by side for about five years and I didn’t necessarily have visions or aspirations of going out and doing this full-time I figured if I could do both at a high level, I would.

And that’s kind of where it was. A lot of good came from that time and the focus and the more I coached people, the more I realized I wanted to be coaching people, the more I was on stage, the more I realized that I wanted it to be on stage. I had some other health stuff that took place, which I won’t go into detail on, but it rattled me a few years back.

It, it it, I had multiple doctors tell me I was perfectly healthy and I just knew I wasn’t fatigue and cognitive dysfunction, brain fog were there. And anybody who knows me for five minutes know that my energy and my intellect are two things that I identify deeply with as a part of my identity, my identity.

So we get through that. I’m doing well. And about last July, my wife and I went away. For a weekend physically, spiritually, emotionally, mentally, like we were in sync that weekend. It’s one of the best we’ve had in 14 years together. We’re driving back to pick up the kids and she looks over at me and says, how’d you feel if you didn’t have to have the office on Monday?

And you know, I get, I get goosebumps every time I tell the story. And I, I say that’s a pretty loaded question, dear. Like, why don’t you tell me more? And she said, well, I think you will, you allow this health stuff. And in this most recent period to allow fear to enter into your world in a way I’ve never seen it effect you.

And she said, I think that you’ve convinced yourself that we need the money, the financial security, the status, the prestige of having built this business. And she said, I’m here to tell you that we don’t. She said, I also think that every day you’re in insurance, you’re dying a little bit inside and you don’t see it.

So she said, I don’t care if we live in a cardboard box. What I care about most is that you are good, you are fulfilled and you’re doing the things that you want. And she said, I also don’t think you’re even scraping the surface of your potential nor do I think you’re having even close to the impact on the world that you want.

So she said, we took a big bet on you once and it paid off and she said, there’s not another person on this planet. I would rather bet on than you. So if you want to double down on that bet, say the word. I was flooded with fear and emotions and all of this stuff, and it’s not lost on me. The courage it took for my wife to tell me all of that.

And she threw a dart and hit the bullseye was way more clear in that moment than I was. And that began the process. So last September, I put the wheels in motion with our CEO, our COO, and all my business partners. And ultimately said, we’re gonna do a nine to 10 month transition because we were mid fiscal year.

And I had made a commitment to the company. I’d made a commitment to our associates. And if I decided to leave mid-year, that would impact a lot of people from a budgetary standpoint. And that’s not how I would choose to leave. And it was very clear to me that I wasn’t running away from anything. I mean, on the surface, honestly, during like I, everybody was like, Oh my God, like, you’ve got it great.

Like you’re living the American dream. You’re making all this money. You’re doing this. You’re impacting lives. You’re, you’ve grown a business. You, you know, you were a partner at a super young age and like it’s, it’s been a really cool, phenomenal path. And the reality of it is, is it’s like I had to ask myself through the lens of the regret minimization theory.

Right. When I’m 80 years old sitting on the beach with my wife, reflecting back on our life, what will I regret more hitting the easy button and staying where I was at, because it was a lot of money. And we had organic natural growth of double digits every year, or taking a chance to go really chase what I believe I’m put on this planet to do.

And, you know, I looked at that through that lens and that was an easy answer. And I never want my kids to witness me ever take the easy path that would go counter to my philosophy of embracing pain. Right. So I literally went through and I had a set of standards that I wanted to exit on. And I took a nine month window was working a hundred plus hours a week, which I don’t say that proudly.

It was a period of time that is not sustainable. I’m not one of those. That’s like the harder you work, like blah, blah, blah. Like there’s a, there’s a very healthy balance to rest and stress in life that we need to turn into. But in this case, I was like, this is a sprint because if I can set the foundation even greater for where I want to head and I can exit on the right terms.

Then I’m going to feel really good about the closing of this chapter. And that’s ultimately what happened. And so May 31st I executed the buy sell. It was my last day in insurance and I’ve been chasing this heart ever since it’s been a blessing. And I’m so happy, brother. Congrats. Yeah. On that. So your wife obviously gave you that push to go over the ledge.

Right? I get asked this a lot of how to start a company or how to leave the corporate job. I even had troubles with this, even though I’ve owned companies before having a corporate position took me way too long to leave. You know, and I you’ve already touched on, touched on a few ways to kind of position yourself to take that leap of faith, but can you, any more tips or tricks that you could talk about to, for somebody who wants to start their own company or do their own thing, or even just leave their job for another one, right?

Yeah. Yeah. So I’m, I’m like I’m, although I’m very instinctual in a lot of things to the point where like often I’ll make a decision and just put it into action. This is a major move. For anybody, right. To walk away from the security of either a business that’s built or a salary that you’re getting from another company.

Like it’s a, it’s not a small thing to consider. I put in the work. And when my wife told me this in July, and I told you, I didn’t notify him until September, October it’s because in that period of time, I literally took myself on an intrinsic journey. And I also did external analysis on factors that I may or may not have control over.

So what I mean by that is I had to really go deep and ask myself the questions on, you know, who, who am I? Right. I already felt like I knew the answer to that, but I needed to get even further clarity because if I’m going to have to change even roles in this world, like. How will that look? What will that look like?

What do I really want to do from an impact standpoint and started to create really a vision for where I wanted to take this thing? I also started really significantly investing in what, what was really just an organic, great side business. That stuff came to me. I’d never turned to the growth switch on right stuff.

Had come to me through my network, through relationships that I had built. And so I had to start really looking at okay, where and how do I build in scale in this type of a business? I think relationships value and impact, which are three things that I’ve always focused on or sole focuses for me right now translate into this world as well.

And so when I had to figure out how do I actually build the platform? What are the different product offerings that I have right outside of just one-to-one coaching or speaking? How do we scale this? Because what I was already running into is on my side, right? Not everybody could afford me one to one, but they wanted to tap into the philosophy.

So how do we scale this with other coaches, other thought leaders, other content, so that we can really kind of get out there. And then I also had to answer a few questions around. You know, I’ve always had a very big philanthropic and altruistic side to me. I had to answer that question. I’m in a position where I’ve got monetary goals on things that I want to donate into the community that meant taking a step back from some of the stuff that I wanted to, to really look at how do I scale and grow this business.

So it can maintain that philanthropic altruistic nature of giving. When I tell you, I want to impact a billion people in the next 25 years, I know that 99.99999 of those will never pay me a dollar. So how do I create impact and add value into the world and just know and trust that when I do that, right, my paying clients will more than subsidize the 99.9999999 lives that I’m going to impact and never touch.

The last thing is, is be intentional, right? I did a seven year cashflow analysis with extreme bookend comparatives to really know, Hey, based on our savings, based on the money that we’d been able to stock away based on my buy, sell based on all these things, like what is my runway? No, what that looks like, like don’t be, don’t just like throw a ball up in the air and be like, Oh, I’m just going to hit it.

Right. I mean, yes, that can work in some cases, but standing a business up is way more work, way more difficult than I think most people realize and understand too, that I’ve never been a believer in work-life balance. I’m a believer in work-life integration, but as an entrepreneur and as a business owner, it’s even more so where it’s constantly on your mind, like there is sometimes no ability to shut it off.

And so you have to really make sure that if you’re married, right, you’ve got a spouse, a partner in life, whatever that looks like for each individual, that you both are understanding, what are the sacrifices we’re going to make on this path? Are we both in this together? What communication is necessary?

Because I’m here to tell you it’s not lost on me. The push my wife gave me what if, what I was about to do was going to sacrifice what my wife and I have, what I have with my kids. None of that would be worth it. Right. And so you just get clarity on all these things. I think those would be the tips I’d leave people with is, you know, sometimes we can act based on instinct and just like make an aggressive move.

I don’t know that this is the place to do that. Although others have and had been very successful. I think that’s why so many businesses fail is they don’t put in the work to lay the foundation to build off of. Yeah. I mean, you, you get, if you’re, if you can’t build that foundation, then you’re going to have a tough time running a business as well.

So go, and a lot of times what I’ll say is actually just start going through those. Steps that you said, because those require, you know, almost no money action, right? You’re you’re just, you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re modeling, you’re doing stuff in your head to kind of figure out what you will you’ll have your visionary, you put together a vision.

Let’s also talk about, you know, you do a lot of keynote speeches, a bunch of stuff like that. A lot of people would have fear of speaking or getting in front, even just getting on this podcast. Yeah. Any thoughts there of how somebody could get over some of those hurdles? Yeah. So, you know, I think there’s like really, really deep rooted fear sometimes will literally keep people stuck.

And I’m not going to touch on that because that typically requires a lot more intervention. But I think that for most people, right, there is a, there’s a fear of being exposed, being vulnerable, saying something wrong, tripping over your words and like anything in life, like the more reps you get, the more natural it becomes.

And so, you know, when, when I look at those moments of discomfort, those moments of pain, right? We talk about embracing pain to avoid suffering. Bernay Brown and dare to lead actually outlined that she did this analysis for herself and those moments of discomfort, right. With a difficult conversation, a tough decision, a new business venture, like something that just, she had fear of was feeling stock.

Maybe her shame was in the way, right. And I’ve done the same type of thing with very similar results. So I referenced Bernay Brown because it’s a credible source. It’s booked in a book and all these things. But what she noticed is that those moments of discomfort typically last about eight seconds. I noticed it’s typically in that eight to ten second range.

And so if you have a hesitancy to get on stage, like yes, do some prep. Yes. Do some practice. Like don’t go wing it if it’s your first time. But the reality of it is, is like, I, you know, I have a client I’m going to use this example because it’s going to answer this question. She’s like a perfectionist. And she, it was a shame-based perfectionism and she was always in this lens of like, she never wrote a first draft.

And what that means is that she wouldn’t do something unless she knew she would be successful unless she knew she would crush it. And so she literally only started projects that she knew she could do a final draft. So, whether that’s a video, a podcast, a writing material, something in business, and, and once you started to realize, like you actually refine and your outcome becomes greater when you actually have multiple reps, when you have multiple failures, when you have perspective.

And so with her, the key key point coin that we came up with, and it’s the same thing for people who want to speak for her, it was just turn the camera on and start talking, right? If you want to have an opportunity and you think you’ve got a valuable lesson that people can benefit from. Get on a stage and start talking, get on a podcast and start talking, right.

Practice it if you need to, in some dry runs, if you want to, but like just start talking, I will tell you every time I get on stage, it’s not so much the case on podcasts, but sometimes, but every time I get on stage in front of a live audience, every time my nerves hit me every time and I’ve done it countless times, right?

Every time I feel that and I get up. And as soon as I get through my first or second sentence, I settle in and the nerves just go away. No, that might not be the case for every single person, but those eight to 10 seconds is what I’m telling you. Just embrace the pain, turn the camera on and start talking, get on stage and start talking.

So, so let’s talk about my podcast experience. Being a host here. I, I am not the personality to be really good at this. A lot of people would say. Would disagree with that because they only see their external. Right. And there’s a reason why my first question is like the easiest question ever. It’s just to get it started and back up because, you know, and then now we’re in it.

Right. So, and then that goes away and then it’s, you know, you’re not as nervous then, but I always, I still get nervous, but I pushed myself through it. I also go through the motions of like let’s book CLA you know, get more people book, try to get a bigger and bigger people to be guests on those show.

Cause if you go through those, those motions, you end up getting them. So you have to go, you have to show up. Exactly. And there’s been times where like, even wish that people would cancel, but then they don’t. And then there you go. You got to, now we’re here, right? You’re not going to. Undo it. I kind of lost my train of thought with that, but let’s, let’s, let’s go into your corporate trainings and stuff like that.

So like what what’s it even look like? So when we talk about, you know coaches, it goes such a big range. So where is kind of your sweet spot when you’re talking about actual, like people who have day jobs, right? Like they’re, they they’re in the middle in the company or either even higher up in a company where do you help?

People who work for somebody else. Yeah. So in my one-to-one work, I typically am working with that C-suite or high level executive high performing salespeople. And then I work with a lot of entrepreneurs and business owners, right. Cause it’s, it’s just both schools of thought exists. There are situations where, you know, in my one-to-one work there’s individuals that are just a growth minded.

So although I say that’s generally the case, there are other people who just view it as an investment and they they’re in their growth minded. They want to put in the work. Put that aside for a second though, because I think what, you know, the one-to-one work, there’s a limited number of spaces, the corporate trainings, the group coaching platforms, those are really scalable and that’s where we can kind of come into play.

So I’ll do things from literally leadership development, strategy type retreats. To help people and organizations really nailed down who they are as a company where they want to head. But then we also do this on a individual level where we’re working with groups of people at different leadership levels or sales levels within an organization.

I’m a big believer that everything in life begins with the who. And the, what is a manifestation of the who? I don’t care if you’re working in a, in a large organization, corporate culture or whatever. Typically, even though they’re going to have some culture and theme that they want you to become a part of, they’re also hiring you for you.

And so the more we get to that true autonomous core, radical, authentic self in a place that we can allow who you are to shine the better and what we do as well as also build it in from a cultural perspective, because we always start with kind of purpose legacy. Who am I today? Who do I need to become?

We look at a three to five-year vision. And what is that vision for that period of time? What are the strategic objectives? What’s imperative, right. So it’s imperative for me to be. For me, one of those is it’s imperative for me to have leverage in my life. So I always ask myself three questions. Is this something that only I can do?

Is this something that someone else can do? Is it something that even needs to be done? And I run everything I do through that triage because I find 90% of it fits in, in the latter two, which means sometimes as a business owner, I’m going to have to do it anyway. But at least if I go into it, that intent, I know this is either something only I can do or not.

And then we break it down into an annual theme. And one of the priorities that need to situate with a bunch of trigger questions to help understand how do we measure success, where are we going? What does this tie to? How does it connect to the work that we just put above it and down to quarterly emphasis in both personal professional and in community service to others, so that we really understand that we’re building a plan for this person in their life to create alignment, but also when they do that, they are better able to perform in their business.

And this happens across the board. We see it frequently all the way down to daily disciplines, which we talked about earlier, when we then can identify, right, what are the two or three things I can do in each category in my life that will really move me success, where I want to personally, professionally, financially in service to others, right?

Mentally, spiritually, physically like you name it. When we take that holistic aligned approach, that’s when people started to become free and they can live with no limits. It also means it a self-regulating process. Cause you know what fits and what doesn’t. So when we lead teams and organizations through this, it changes the philosophy from right.

We are this entity to, yes, we are this entity and we have this common vision and goal. But as each individual contributor, we get clarity on what’s important, who we are, what do I need to do to be successful? And we know what else is noise, so we can collaborate effectively together. Oh, we talked about some rituals before.

What? What’s an average day in the life of your life. Right? What kind of rituals do you have daily? It’s a great question. And this has evolved over time, but I’ll tell you where it stands today. So I get up every morning between four and four 30, I say between four and four 30, because I give myself the window if I need a little bit of extra sleep.

But the reality of it is, is I, I believe that mornings are the only time of day that I have a hundred percent control of my time, right before clients are reaching out to me before my wife and kids need me before. Right. I’m out there doing whatever I’m doing. And so that two and a half hours, the first two to two and a half hours of my day is a hundred percent focused on the things I need to do for me.

And so some people are like, Oh, wait, that’s selfish. Well, it’s the least selfish thing I can do because it puts me in the best position to be set up for success, to carry the burdens and help alleviate pain and suffering for other people. So the very first 30 minutes, literally I roll out of bed and I immediately come into my office, Jim casita, I sit down in my meditation spot and I meditate for 30 minutes a day.

Right. Sometimes there’s a focus on concentration. Sometimes it’s actual meditation, sometimes it’s visualization, but it’s sitting there with myself to just be in my body and be quiet and allow that to take place. My doing self has always superseded my being self. And so over the last few years, I’ve really found like the integration and necessity of both.

I immediately then move into bodywork. And I do typically 30 minutes of stretching and percussion therapy with my thera gun because with my body and my structure, if I don’t do that regularly and consistently, I literally get rigid as a board and that pain becomes suffering. I also follow that then by my physical activity.

Right. So working out, whether that’s weightlifting, some cardio, riding my road, bike, running, swimming, whatever the case may be, it immediately follows there. And then I also bring in journaling planning for my day, getting myself prepped. So I spend two and a half hours every day. And I hit on all four categories that I care about mental, physical, spiritual, and emotional.

Right. When I hit all four of those, I move things into conscious level of awareness. It allows me to be intentional in every moment of my day. No, no, sorry. Sorry to interrupt. But a lot of people say I don’t, I don’t have two and half hours. Right. W, you know, like for their day. And, you know, I think one way to look at that is, and I’m guessing your rest of your day is going to be extremely packed and busy as well is yeah.

Look, maybe you just have to get up earlier or go to bed later, you know? So here’s the thing when I say two and a half hours now that’s after six, seven years of refining this process, it started with 30 minutes. Right. Let’s do the math on this. Like I guarantee you, everybody can find 30 minutes in their day.

I guarantee you there’s 30 minutes of waste. Okay. I have very little waste in my day. Right. There are moments that are very intentional rest periods. And so it’s not about not sitting or not being, cause I have that built in, but I have very little like just downtime, right? But it started with 30 minutes.

Let’s do the math, right? Like, think about the compound effectiveness. Like how many people are like, Oh, I want more vacation. I want more time with my friends. I want more time to focus on my side hustle. I want more time to focus on my health. Right. And everyone’s always like, I don’t have time. 30 minutes a day.

Let’s just Monday through Friday. It’s five days a week. That’s 30 minutes a day, two and a half hours a week, 10 hours a month, 120 hours a year. Right, depending on how often you work, whether it’s a 40 or 60 hour workweek, that’s four to six weeks. Sorry. I did the math wrong on that. That’s two to three weeks that you’ve given yourself back in your day or in your year.

So it’s not so much about like times the only thing we can’t create Maura, but we can cheat the system. And, and again, when I did this and I did it regularly and consistently, I found that the more I spent time focusing in those four buckets, setting myself up for success. The faster, I was able to move with less effort in the rest of my day, so I can compress more volume into the same period of my working hours that I define.

If I set myself up properly, again, it’s about laying the foundation. If I lay my foundation every single day, I can build on top of it. If I don’t set that foundation, the day starts to crumble. And so I found that to be very effective for me, but I guarantee you, everybody can find 30 minutes a day and yeah, it might be getting up earlier, but I’m not also a sleep shamer right.

Like, I’m one of those that literally is going to say, you need to honor how much your body needs sleep. So if it’s not on the sleep side that you cut out, which is the case for so many, where are you wasting? 30 minutes. Right? That’s not adding. Or contributing or serving where you want to head in your life?

Yeah. I think a lot of people that are you know, streaming Netflix all night that, you know, you could replace that. I also think even in this is the 30 minute thought processes, even if you just are intentional with your day, I like to have. You know, at least one to three kind of, Hey, if I accomplish these things and I do this in the morning, I’ll be happy.

I’ll be happy that those things can be pretty easy stuff. But I also want to know that, like, I want to end the day being. Feeling fulfilled for that day. Right. I want to be happy that I did what I wanted to do, as opposed to just getting bogged down by emails. Right. The daily disciplines are about right.

So those are the personal things. One of the other things in my personal bucket is what I call Ashley’s big five. She’s my wife. Right. And so that’s like holding her hand, touching her hair, sending your intentional daily text messages, checking in on different things. Like I, you know, I hit those parts. So you talked about my day typically then my day right.

Starts between eight and nine, depending on the day. And it’s jam packed, right? Typically for like 10 hours, sometimes 12. It depends on the day, but I have dinner with my kids five to six nights a week without fail, because that is something that is absolutely very important to me. So I shut off typically by five or five 30 every night, I go inside swallowing hour and a half to two hours is exclusively focused on my kids and my wife.

We have dinner together. I help, I, I do bedtime all those same nights as well with my kids. I’ve got a five and a six year old. Like to me, those are routines and rituals that I’m not willing to sacrifice. Sometimes they happen. Right. Sometimes I’m traveling. Sometimes I’m going to dinner. Like it happens.

But if I do it more often than I don’t, it’s really important because those are memories. Again, I’m going to have with my kids forever and with my wife. Typically then after bedtime, my wife and I will separate for somewhere between 30 to 45 minutes. All typically do like my day in triage. Right. Like get to the stuff.

That’s absolutely urgent. The stuff that I need to, but I’m typically shut off. Like non-responsive. For almost everything, text, email, or phone calls after about 8:00 PM because that’s where my wife and I spend the next period of time together. Sometimes just talking. Sometimes we will watch a show together and wind down, and I’m typically in bed between nine and nine 30.

So I can get my full seven to seven and a half hours of rest tonight. I used to be the guy that got four, right. And burn the candle on both ends. And I, you know, my, my equation used to be stress equals growth. The more I pushed myself, the greater my capacity was the more I could grow. At burned me hard.

And now my, now my equation is stress plus rest equals growth. And you know, it’s not, it’s not about how much we sleep or how little we sleep. It’s what do we do with the time that we’re awake? So what was your approach to, you know, your marketing or business development? Right. So how do you get clients?

How do you get new clients, right? Yup. You know, traditionally it was all organic and referral-based and through my network, which was, which was great. And I told you I hadn’t turned the growth switch on. So I had a steady flow of speaking opportunities and coaching for five years. But I only had so much capacity while running this other business.

When this switched, right. I went back into the offense, which is building relationships, value and impact. Like literally that’s all I’m focused on. So I’m collaborating with new people a big funnel that I honestly completely to my own. Just credit devalued podcasts and some of the virtual stuff. And so, you know, when I, when we went live, everybody pandemic COVID came.

Everybody’s like, Oh, are you going to change your decision? Are you going to delay your timeline? You’re going to, I said, no, I’m clear and convicted of where I head. The business model might look different. The business plan might look different. The growth might look different, but I know where I’m headed.

And I also know what my runway is. So I, I had that buffer. But I shifted hard. Right? I had only maybe done a handful of podcasts. I’d never done a virtual summit. Nobody knew what a virtual seminar, a virtual keynote was. Right. They were all in person, but I did. And you and I were jamming on this before we jumped onto record, I looked at how am I going to show up in this scenario?

Right. I want to make sure because first impressions matter, right? Typically beyond a couple of minutes, like you can overcome first impressions, but I said, okay, if I’m going to differentiate in this space, I can differentiate in a technological world with technology. So I invested in building out a true virtual studio.

I’ve got a five-point lights set up with where this is my background, which is now on version probably six or seven, right. Where I’ve like refined to figure out what do I actually want behind me? What do I want on those shelves? What I, you know, that’s where that is. It’s six or seven feet behind me.

You’re six or seven feet in front of me. And so you’re on a DSLR camera obviously, but you’re also on a 50 inch screen. The reason I did that is so much of what I do in human behavior and performance coaching is reading people, leveraging my emotional intelligence to see the micro expressions, little things that pick up on the face and body language and connotation of voices where it’s like, I needed to see the other people clearly, but because my image was set up, people can consume me as clearly as possible.

Right. And I’ve actually won a virtual keynote where I was down to the finalists. I think all things else were equal and the company said, look, our people are going to see you better, hear you better and consume you better because of the quality of the technology. I also think it gives me for me, it gives me confidence too, that I have a set up that I’m proud of.

Right. Yeah. You know, and I think, I think spending a little time on that is important. Cause you, you know, you’re going to be in front of a lot of different people, you know, but let’s try it. Doesn’t have to be as high quality as what you and I would have at least a little bit of your personality comes out right.

With, with your backdrop and how and how you do it. Right. A hundred percent and you know, it has been a differentiator and you know, the number of times somebody I get onto a podcast and they’re like, Oh my gosh, like, what are you doing with your setup? I mean, I’ve shared the literal full, detailed setup with literal, like YouTube videos on like things I had to learn.

Cause I knew nothing about photography. Right. And I couldn’t bring a contractor in to set it up for me. So I literally had to invest the time to learn it so that I could set up a strong structure. But I’ve literally, I’ve shared the email now with tons of people. But where I was going with the podcast piece is, you know, I was like, you know, I’m going to dabble in this a little bit, not really understanding where I was going to head with it and chased, you know, 10 to 12 podcasts landed most of them, which was cool.

And it just took off from there. I mean, each one of those translated into five to six new opportunities in the last four months. I’ve now done over 90 podcasts and I’ve got another 15 already booked in the next two weeks. And I don’t say that to impress Darren. I say it to impress upon the point, like. I completely discredit it discounted podcasts, but I said, you know, what, where and how can I differentiate here?

And it’s blown my mind as it relates to reach, I’ve had more conversations with some of the coolest people I’ve ever met on the planet. I’ve been on podcasts based in the UK, Australia, India, right. And followers from around the globe are now starting to connect with me from places that I would have never thought right.

In my traditional stage route in the Southwest of the United States. Right. The reach has gotten far greater and I’m collaborating on business opportunities now as a result of it and things that are based in coaching and non coaching. And so, you know, I think the more we can put ourselves out there, and again, I’m focusing on relationships, value and impact.

I’ve said that a few times, but every time I show up to a podcast, right, I want to understand who is their ideal audience, who do I know in my network that can add value to their show and their audience, and like just making. Self self lists. Introductions has catapulted this to like another level and it’s generating opportunities that are now feeding the business.

In ways that I didn’t anticipate before. And so you know, I’m doing that. I’m leveraging some different things around social media strategies, content. Obviously I put a ton of content out cause I just really want to help people. And whether or not they consume me or my content or ever pay me, I know it’ll have an impact.

And I believe that to my core. So the hesitation is gone. It’s full on action towards. Focusing on impact. I’ve got 25 years to impact a billion lives. That’s taking all of my energy focus, intellect to really dial that in and refine my processes so that I can have a solid sales system so that I can serve the people that really want that deep work.

And I can impact the lives of people who can’t ever afford to invest in it. What about people that want to get in the world of coaching and there’s so many different areas of coaching, so it doesn’t really matter what of some ways, cause you just kind of now have gone all in on this. Right. What are some thoughts on the, how they could, you know, maybe some stuff that, that worked for you or some stuff that, that didn’t work, you know, anywhere you want to take it.

Yeah. So I’m going to start by saying, you know, there’s like a gazillion coaches out there and there’s a bunch of like fate gurus and there’s a bunch of slime balls that are selling like. Horrible courses and things that really they’re just focused on revenue generation, not transformation for people rip it in every industry though.

Like the industry, I think it’s just, yeah. Highlighted like how much it exists here. You know, over the last couple of years, it’s, it’s really strong. So I think the first thing for people who want to get in coaching, I really want you to look at it through why are you doing it? That’s the first question I would ask, because if it’s just to make money, I don’t think that’s a compelling enough reason to really drive you to.

To embrace the pain that’s necessary to really go after what it is. And this isn’t like, you know, you can have some quick wins for sure, but it’s really hard as a solo preneur in the very beginning, it’s really hard, like to recognize that you’re also trading time for money and a lot of different things.

So you’ve got to be very thoughtful about why, so that you can overcome the discomfort of all of those moments of growth and scaling. So that’s the first thing. The second thing is understand, like where do you have expertise and relevance based on your story. Right. And I think that that’s really important, whether it’s professional background, personal story, emotional intelligence, right?

Really understanding human connection, understanding human emotions, human behavior, like whatever the case may be. Or are you a fitness coach? Are you a nutrition coach? Are you a very specific podcasting coach? Like. Understand, like where do you have relevance and credibility, where you can tell your story in a way that’s effective to really be able to impact whoever’s in your space?

The other thing I would say is there are some people who need a toolkit, right? They need a toolkit to build off of, and there’s lots of coaching, certifications and ways to go get that toolkit. I always want you to understand your why. I always want you to understand what you want your, your relate-ability and credibility.

Your relevance is before you go down that path, because if you just jump in and go get your toolkit, but you don’t have those first two questions answered, then you’re an inch deep and a mile wide. And you really aren’t going to know where to go or how to do it. So I say that with no discredit, I think there’s a ton of people who have hung their hats as coaches who’ve gone and got certifications.

But they really don’t have relevant relevance and credibility in anything. Right. Or there’s a bunch of 19 and 20 year olds who are like, I’m going to go be a life coach. What does that mean? Like, and by the way, yeah, that’s not to say that at 19 or 20, you can’t do that, but have you answered the, why have you answered the relevance and credibility, then you get the toolkit and then I would just say it’s like anything, right.

You can jump in with both feet. Certainly. Can you rip off the bandaid and just say, I’m going to jump full force into this. Yes. But I also think that like, you should give yourself a little bit of a runway to test it, evaluate it, see if this lifestyle is what’s best for you. See if being a coach and carrying the burden of so many other people is something that you’ve got the emotional maturity and resilience to handle seeing if you can actually do these things.

So. I, I know I gave a longer answer there probably than you were expecting, but I think it’s really important that you begin with the why understand relevance and credibility, figure out what tools you either need to tap into or build, and then figure out like, is this really the path and the lifestyle that I want?

I think if you go through that four questions, You’ll be on the right path to decide like, yeah, this is me or not. And you’ll know the right time to jump in. If it is, I think you could take what you just said there and attribute that to starting a company, starting, you know, starting a business, doing a small business.

I think it’s the same thing. Right? Because a lot of people just want to say there are, they own a company or whatever, but they didn’t go through those, those, those processes. What about like glorious, right? It is not all glorious. I mean there is there, there, and especially in the beginning until you get teams around you, it can be lonely.

It can be isolating. It’s, it’s really difficult. And that’s why so many businesses fail. But I think if you do the work up front, you’ve got a greater likelihood to succeed and that’s all I’m encouraging people to do. We can’t guarantee success, but yeah, it’s not, it’s not all glamorous, but Instagram has made entrepreneurship.

Sure. Look glamorous. Right. It’s very true. I actually. I’ve I’ve owned companies with co-founders and right now I’m just on my own. And I don’t, I don’t, I think I’ll always do a co-founder again, because I’ve just have somebody else on the Island with you. Right. Just as have just have some company every once in a while, you know, it would be nice.

What about, so, you know, growing up, obviously with your injury, what’s some advice you’d give your 16 year old self, right? What would you say to him? So the period of life right after my accident was interesting. And so I’m, I’m going to give a little context and then, and then answer that question, you know, as I’m seven years old, I remember sitting there and feeling sorry for myself in the bed when I was there in the ICU.

And I remember feeling like why me? Right. And, and it’s really easy. I think when trauma or crazy things happen for people to get stuck. And, and I, I was on a fine line where I almost got stuck. But then we had so many families coming up to us saying, we’re so sorry for what happened to you, what can we do to help?

And then we come to learn that their kid in the ICU bed next to me, has a terminal illness. And doesn’t know if they’re going to live another month perspective points. Isn’t what’s important. And so that knocked me out of that piece. But what also started to happen is I became the center of attention and a lot of ways, and I didn’t want to be the center of attention.

And I also started to become very intimately aware of the limits and boundaries. Other people were placing on me based on their own lens that they were viewing the world. And I refuse to be defined by those limits and boundaries. And so at 16, I was well into the path of creating an external narrative, right.

That I’m good. I’m tough. I can do anything and I don’t need anybody’s help. And I proved that through a whole lot of things in my life with intellect and mental toughness alone. What I would tell myself at 16 would be you need human connection. You need other people in your life. We all need help. And though the perspective point me in the right direction, I ended up learning that lesson the hard way at age 20.

’cause I rebroke my arm in a snowboarding accident. Again, living my life to what I thought was no limits. Probably wasn’t a smart move given my prior injury, but I wasn’t gonna allow that to define me. Compound fracture went 10 months with it hanging by my side. And I learned that the world had bought into my narrative.

Nobody was there. I was, it was one of the most vulnerable periods of my life, but they just believed Brian was good. He was strong. He was capable. He didn’t need any of our help. And I didn’t have the courage to ask for it. And so that would be what I would tell my 16 year old self is you know, when I shut off physical pain, I shut off emotional pain.

I also shut off the ability to like really focus on human connection because the external narrative I created was I didn’t need it. And so I would have encouraged myself to really start the process of building my own emotional resilience, maturity, and really focusing on human connection earlier than I did.

You know, I’m a big believer that we can’t necessarily change the path and everything happens for a reason, but had I been able to do that four years earlier, who knows what the trajectory would have looked like? You know, and the emotional piece didn’t come in until way later. So that would have been more than a decade of difference in that capacity.

And so that’s it, right? Human connection and emotions are important and human connection without emotion. Isn’t really human connection. That’s what I would have told myself. Any, any mentors or books that’s helped you along the way with that path of, of being able to you know, enhance your connections with people or even just with yourself?

Yes, a lot. I, I read a lot. I probably consume a book a week and and I do that because I, I heard a quote seven years ago that the only difference between who you are today and who you’ll be five years from now, isn’t the people that you meet and the books that you read. Right. So it’s, what have you learned from other people and their collective wisdom and what can you learn early?

The book part is what knowledge you putting through your brain, right? And so I started really reading voraciously. I did have a very strong mentor early in my career who was very deeply involved in a lot of philanthropic causes. I mean, she was involved in almost everything major that happened in Phoenix over the last 40 to 50 years.

She’s just unbelievable. She’s a powerhouse. She’s totally unassuming. And she connected me with a lot of amazing people. And one of them set a comment to me pretty early on. He said, there’s no limit to what one can accomplish. As long as they, you care about who gets the credit. I mean, that’s what that’s all about, right?

It’s about human connection. It’s about collaboration. It’s about vulnerability. It’s about not needing the credit. It’s not, it’s not about the image and the ego. It’s about the impact. And so those started to happen. One of the most transformational books though, because I want to answer that question too.

I referenced it earlier. Bernay, Brown’s dare to lead was very powerful for me. You know, one of the things that I didn’t realize was holding me back for a long time was shame. And that book really helped me unpack shame. And she outlines in that book very clearly. And the reason I couldn’t identify it as shame in my own life is because most people think of shame as I’m not worthy, I’m not good enough.

And that’s like the dominating narrative for shame. In most cases. But the other narrative to shame is when you shut that down, you show up in the arena and you’re ready to go to battle. It’s. Who do you think you are? Everything major I ever did. I felt the need to apologize for. I felt like I shouldn’t live big.

I shouldn’t live beyond boundaries. I shouldn’t do major impactful things because I didn’t want other people to feel badly. Right. That I was doing it and they weren’t, or that I had the attention and they weren’t. And it wasn’t ever about. Me being better than somebody else. I just literally ratcheted myself back and it, it changed the ultimate Wolf in sheep’s clothing, because it literally boxes you in on both sides.

I’m not worthy. I’m not good enough. Who do you think you are? And you only have this much wiggle room. And so that was one of the most profound things and really helping me bring our ability and authenticity and understanding of shame, shame, resilience into my life because it was holding me back. Right.

I’ve done some majorly cool things in my, in my life that nobody knows about. And they probably won’t ever know because I’m still not going to bring it up like 10 years later or five years. But the reality of it is, is like, you know, it’s, it’s very damaging. So dare to lead, I think is a really strong book for any leader who’s looking at, how do, how do we build like real, authentic, vulnerable relationships that established trust?

Bernie Brown is phenomenal. Yes. So what, what about you? You mentioned five years from now. So what do you, where do you see yourself? Five years now? Whether it’s personal personally or professionally, either which way you want to take it? Hopefully, I’m going to be a 20% into my impact of a billion people.

Right. And when I say 20% and that’s not necessarily, I’m going to have impacted 20% of those lives, but I do believe there’s going to be an exponential effect. That’s going to come into play. I think that everything happens from a compound effect. I think five years from now, I’m going to be doing a lot of the same stuff that I’m doing today, but on a bigger level you know, everything that I’m focused on right now is about impact and what follows impact right from the business standpoint is revenue generation.

I don’t really care about the money or the dollars that are coming through my business today, other than how will it help support. Bringing a leverage into my world and bringing other smart, capable individuals to help round out the story, have more people on our team because that’s only going to exponentially create a greater amount of impact.

So where I’ll be five years from now, I’m not going to talk numbers or specifics, but I hopefully will be surrounded by a bigger team than I even have today. And we’re going to be well on our path to you know, getting to that billion over the next 25 years. I think podcasting is still going to be a strong part of that.

If I, if I had a crystal ball, I will tell you that I’ll probably have my own certainly well underway before then. I hope that within the next five years that I will also actually get my first autonomous solo book out. I’ve been a contributor in other books, but I’ve got a couple of concepts that I’m working on right now.

And that I think is going to be a big way to scale and grow not a revenue generator, but an impact generator. You know, and then just continuing to move forward on some of those same things. Reality of it is though I can have a vision for three to five years and a hundred things, a hundred variables can change.

So what I’m focused on more than anything is that billion impact number. And that path might look very different than what I think it is today. I’m very open to understanding and accepting that. How did you come up with that goal of a billion people to be impacted? I’m really big on what I call no limits goals.

Right? I think so often we protect ourselves with, with goals that we set, right. If we need to lose 20 pounds, we’ll tell ourselves we’re going to lose 10. And then if we lose eight, we feel good about it. But the reality of it is we still need to lose another 12 to be in our ideal weight. Whereas if we shoot out for 20 or 25, even if we miss that goal, we’re going to typically outperform whatever was below it.

And so this is a philosophy I have in lots of my initial planning that does not mean that’s what my three to five-year visions are, or my annual stuff is, but like the long, big audacious ones and the billion number came from the fact that we’ve got 7.2 billion people on this planet. And I viewed a billion as a pretty significant chunk of that, which would, would indicate that we’re having a, we’re moving the needle.

When I say impact, right? Like I want to reduce the suffering that exists in the world. Because that is what allows joy, freedom and fulfillment to come into people’s lives. It’s a difficult thing for them to coexist. The other piece about it is that there’s what 2.3 or 2.4 billion people that have access to technology.

Right? And so I looked at that and said, okay, the one to the 7.2, that’s a big, meaningful number. But if I look at the modern world and people have access to this, it’s an even bigger percentage of that number. And a billion is big enough that. It’s going to require all of me for the rest of my life to do it.

And so that, that is really what I’m focused on. The reality of it is I’ll never know. I’ll never know. I won’t be able to measure that. But you know, if I talk to you and you hear one thing that you like and you happen to share it, you and whoever you shared it with is a part of that billion. Anybody can see it coming on this podcast or any other show or platform that I’ve been on that billion.

And there’s a ripple effect to that. And so I just genuinely believe if I focus on impact. Relationships values and impact it’s it’s going to happen, right? Like that’s, that’s where I’m at. I’m just very clear and convicted on that’s what I’m after in my life. So my last question of the podcast is how would you like to be remembered?

It’s very connected that impact. I want to first be remembered by my wife and kids as a thoughtful, active, engaged father and husband. Right. That was, was there for the big moments that allowed them to flourish into who they actually are versus being the person who, you know, told them what they should do, who they should be and added all those layers of damage on onto my kids.

If I can have that be the only thing I accomplish. And that’s what I’m remembered for. Great. But immediately followed by that is the impact on the world. I would love to be known and remembered for reducing the suffering in the world. We have a ton of it right now. We have a ton of it in the world that we live in today.

And I genuinely believe if we can, if we can reduce the amount of suffering and if I can help people embrace the pains necessary to do that, that’d be, that’d be a phenomenal legacy. Hello? Well, Brian, it was a big pleasure to have you on the establishing your empire podcast here. I really appreciate it.

Appreciate it. A lot of value. I mean, just a lot of great nuggets here. I really appreciate your your time. Oh man. I appreciate the platform you’ve built and you being consistent with us. Cause like I said, that’s the only reason I’ve got an opportunity to be a part of your audience. And so thank you.

It was a pleasure. All right, man. Cheers.

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